Are your children stuck in a "materialistic trap"? Your thoughts on Unicef's report about British children and family time, please!

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We wanted to let you know (if you haven't seen it already) that Unicef have just published a report in which they said that British children are caught in a "materialistic trap".

British children, they say, aren't able to spend enough time with their families (because British parents work such long hours) and their parents, feeling the pressure, "buy them off with branded goods".

"Consumer culture in the UK contrasts starkly with Sweden and Spain," say Unicef in their report, "where family time is prioritised, children and families are under less pressure to own material goods and children have greater access to activities out of the home."

What's your reaction to this? Do you agree with Unicef - or not?

And, if you agree, what could we all do about it?

We don't spend much on material things for the children, but we do spend alot of time with them. I guess we do spend a bit on the clubs that they want to do, but that only takes up some of their time. We do lots of stuff as a family as well as 1:1 time with them.

We are not afraid of the word "No!"

Does anyone know about family life in Sweden and why it is seen as more condusive to a happy childhood? I've done a google search, but not come up with much.

Hmm I don't know about Sweden but Spain is catching up. Actually in many ways it is more materialistic than uk. My nieces and nephiews and other Spanish children are mad about electronic games etc, like most children in the west. Spanish people (and Italians) are more into clothes and make up/hair than British. It is not unuual to go to the hairdresser twice a week after work.

Second hand clothes shops don't exist. Very few people do volunteer work.

Children do spend lots time with family - but mainly with the Grandparents not the parents.

Mah, I don't really know what to think of these kinds of reports.

On a very superficial level, I'd say Spanish children are happier, because the Spanish in general appear to be of a sunnier disposition than the Brits.

I don't recognise the portrait that the Unicef report paints about Britain. Not just talking about me, but most the families we know don't seem obsessed with career and status symbols or afraid to ever say "no". Maybe it will seem different as DC get older (eldest only 11).

I live in a high-ITV viewing area, btw, very bog standard ordinary English town.

Women in Spain aren't SAHMS that often, i think? Not what my Spanish friends said, anyway. Nobody can afford it, and you only have one child typically so childcare is affordable. Plus the Spaniards really love their stuff, imo, not lots of stuff but high quality stuff in their tiny flats.

MNHQ - are we not being offered the chance to enter a prize draw for some fabulous prize for taking part in the discussional survey on materialism?

My 1970s parents spent most of my childhood hiding behind their newspaper, too tired out from long hours working to ferry me around places or talk much. We watched a lot of TV together.

Are these parents the same parents moaning about the cost of childcare?

I do agree with the report and feel that we do live in a consumer culture.The stuff people have these days is staggering.We don't have half of it and manage quite nicely.

I think an awful lot of people could tighten their belts and spend more time with their dc but they just don't want to.Many people think gadgets/holidays/cars/clothes/expensive food are necessities and it's so sad.

Kids need time and the importance put onto materialistic things coupled with long hours in childcare/school is imvho going to lead to major future problems. Kids are going to grow up thinking they need stuff they don't, never having had a childhood and of the opinion that parents put more stock into working for things than being with them.

I am bringing up my children in the UK and my brothers are bringing up theirs in Sweden. Don't think there is much difference in the dcs tbh. They all want consumer goods, they don't necessarily get them. I don't feel more pressured as a parent in the UK; the word 'no' trips quite easily off my tongue.

No? OK, I will respond for teh joy of taking poart - discussion shall be it's own reward

Context of my views:

I have been a f/t wohm since DS was 4 months old. DS is not caught up in a materialistic trap (evidenced by the fact that he doesn't badger for anything, his friends have phones, he doesn't want one yet because he says he doesn't need one, he enjoys the things he gets but doesn't ask for more, and doesn't bother about brands).

I haved lived in Norway for a year, living with norwegian family (mother was also f/t wohm).

I observe that many UK families, esp women, consider shopping to be a leisure activity. On programmes like WifeSwap a shopping trip is often the main 'mother-dd activity' which bonds them. In a bid to be close to thier children adults involve children more and more in adult activity - esp 'pampering' and shopping. And ooh-ing and aahhing over phones and x boxes and adult games like call of Duty. (Microsoft don't market many children's games because the purported x box market is young men!!!! Contrast that to what you see in many homes). Many UK families have lost the ability to enjoy the outdoors - members of my extended family NEVER took their children to the park between late Sept and Late May (too Cold, they whinge). they are the same family where everyone has the most up to the minute phone. NO Norwegian or Swedish family would operate like this! In families and schools children are outdoors. Being outdoors and doing outdoor activity is a stated aprt of the school day. In DS's school they are punished - sent inside to miss playtime - if the touch snow without wearing gloves!!!! My DS, and a few of his non-materialist friends, can entertain themselves all day, for 3 days running, in a wood (when we go camping). My highly materialist DNs cannot entertain themselves for 20 mins if they can't get a connection on their iPhone in the same wood.

Maybe:
Too much structure, too MUCH adult attention and intervention = inability to play alone without expensive resources
Shopping as a leisure activity for children has consequences
Being nesh and inexperienced in the outdoors makes people reliant on materialist stuff
A sense of competition and status in the adult world has filtered down, and while urban-dwelling, short journeying adults buy massive Lexis 4X4s for the sake of having one, my fashion conscious DNs who never used to own wellies ('I don't wear wellies') are now demanding (and will get) expoensive £90 shiny pink Hunters NOT for their function - to go out in mud and rain - but to have them as a fashion / status symbol.

Why are they getting so much publicity about this when's a study on only 250 people?

Have the researchers from Unicef who think that children don't have enough access to activities outside the home been anywhere near
this thread about after-school activities??

I don't think there's any problem with children having access to "activites" outside the home! Where there is / might be a problem is with children being allowed to play outside under their own steam / away from parental supervision. A generation ago, the idea that a 10 year old needed childcare after school would have been something of a joke I think!

MilaMae i agree with your post but this is happening everywhere in West imo, not just in Britain. (the climate might make some difference though)

Agree with Blu.

Shopping = leisure. I read an article a while ago where Bluewater shopping mall was monitored and some families were observed over several weekends who stayed there for six or seven hours, just wandering around, eating a bit, browsing, with several children in tow. Now, since time began people have liked to have stuff - even a caveman would have enjoyed a new spear/flint - but to spend all day every weekend wandering around a shopping centre is surely going too far.

As others have observed, the Spanish observations seem to be poppycock. Generally Spanish/Italians have far fewer housing costs, but put virtually every penny they have on their backs. I can't imagine a Primark in Milan! Charity shop clothes? No way. Their children are dressed impeccably and rarely spend any time outdoors - certainly not engaged in rough and tumble activities. And most women work and the grandparents do the childcare.

I'm going to forward this link to my Spanish cousins (who all work as many hours as they can get, rely on nurseries/ holiday clubs/after school clubs and grandparents (and great grandparents!) to juggle childcare, and happily fill their flats with far more toys and electronic goods than my boys have.

They are more family orientated, but mainly because historically they didn't have a choice. Hence, my nephew sharing a room with my grandma well into his 20s.

Another day, another survey/study. I do wonder if anyone ever reads these and thinks " that's me!! I must change my behaviour immediately"...

But isn't it monkey see monkey do??? Seriously, we have a big issue of drinking and infantilization of men and indulgence. I don't think it is just limited to children.

I do think that people work very hard in this country, and very long hours, and that a good positive work-life balance is difficult to achieve. And from my experience, at school, the parents who have really big parties for their kids with entertainers etc are mostly families where both parents work. Part of that might be because they feel a bit guilty because they don't spend enough time with their kids, but also (probably mostly) because they can afford it! The kids I know who have Wiis, nintendos, lots of toys etc are from families in which both parents work. And I also think that we do bring up our children in materialistic environments.

I hate all these reports too.
But kids want you. There is no such thing as quality time, they want quantity. Believe you me mine have said harrowingly sad things to me when I've been working like 'you're never here' I was actually, b4 6.30 am and after 7pm but as far as a 9 yr old is concerned that doesn't count. Anyway in the end we all muddle through. Once you have kids life is one big trade off

Mine have some stuff.
But what makes them happiest is being with their extended family, playing racing demon (indoors) with 14 of us or beach cricket ( outdoors), and that's what they'll remember.

I live in Italy at the moment, which in some ways is closer to Spain - where I live people do not work any less that they do in the UK, and certainly there aren't many SAHMs as not many can afford to be. The only difference I can see with the UK is that a lot more of the childcare is left to GPs: the park opposite my house is literally full of children with their GPs over the summer.

In terms of materialism - well I think Southern Europe is a lot worse than the UK. Parents literally go without to make sure kids have got the right clothes (Burberry/Disney branded stuff is particularly en vogue here), and people are really surprised when I say that I often shop at supermarkets for their clothes/underwear/school things (I could afford more expensive stuff - I just do not see the point). I think this type of "country" comparisons are really pointless as they are never going to be "like for like": people have got different expectations and benchmarks about what is "quality time" and "materialism".

Equally, most people/parents have to work, so the whole "give them more time less money" has no value if not working means you cannot afford housing and food. And even if my parents spent more time with us than I do with my DD, I cannot recall my mum ever playing with me for more than 2 mins (and I still think she is the most wonderful mum ever).

My DD isn't in that trap. DH and I both work part-time from home, and we do lots of stuff with her, much of it outdoors and preferably on or in water. She doesn't care at all about branded goods - is this unusual in a 12 year old? - except in the sense that she rejects a lot of logo'd clothes.

It does seem very generic.

For example I would say children spending les stime playing/doing activities outside of the home is linked to the pretty ludicrous obsessive ringfencing of green belt land in Britain which means parks and green spaces in urban areas are regularly built over as 'brown belt' land. Which leaves children with only traffic filled urban areas/shopping centres to go to in their free time.

In fairness to Unicef, the interviews etc were based on a systematic recruitment procedure to ensure those interviewed were representitive, and the whole qualitative study was preceded by a 'scoping' study. I would imagine that it has been done according to appropriate standards. (Whether or not the journalistic treatment given to it is in line with its importance or unimportance is another matter, as ever).

Spanish women DO NOT TEND TO SAH!!! I would love to know where that idea came from!
In fact working hours in Spain tend to be ludicrously long (my DH rolls in somewhere between 8 and 9pm.. he's not unusual) although there is a slight tendency for more women to work shorter days, possibly picking their children up from school. Maternity leave here is just 16 weeks and many women rely on their mothers to look after their children until they are comfortable with sending them to nursery. In higher socioeconomic groups, childcare often comes in the form of a South American lady who works a very long day for a small wage.

But, yes, Spanish children do tend to have close links with their grandparents (see above) and often live quite close to them, to facilitate this free childcare bond.

If you've got as far as here, though.. I really do think that children's lives here are somewhat less affected by consumerism. A PP mentioned the obsession with occasions and gift giving in the UK, and I wholeheartedly agree. Here, for example, nobody talks about Christmas until at least late November..it's just not hyped up the same way. I don't think children are exposed to as much advertising either.. of course their school day is longer and they often do lots of after school activities (see long working hours!) so they quite simply do not spend so much time plonked in front of the TV.