Are your children stuck in a "materialistic trap"? Your thoughts on Unicef's report about British children and family time, please!

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We wanted to let you know (if you haven't seen it already) that Unicef have just published a report in which they said that British children are caught in a "materialistic trap".

British children, they say, aren't able to spend enough time with their families (because British parents work such long hours) and their parents, feeling the pressure, "buy them off with branded goods".

"Consumer culture in the UK contrasts starkly with Sweden and Spain," say Unicef in their report, "where family time is prioritised, children and families are under less pressure to own material goods and children have greater access to activities out of the home."

What's your reaction to this? Do you agree with Unicef - or not?

And, if you agree, what could we all do about it?

What you say, Cory, reminds me of what it was like being a teenager in the 1970s and 80s in Britain. I think parents were generally more laid back and less competitive than now, and of course uni was free and you got a grant, and people knew there were jobs at the end of it.

I think you put your finger on it, Solo; despite some nasty shocks in recent year, it still seems such a naively confident society. And I reckon that is the truth behind the low pregnancy rates etc: teens expect a rosy future, so they're not going to muck up. How do we get that naivety into the 14yo from the council estate?

Laquitar -- I feel the same way about the silly bedtimes and slavery to routines. Who is being trained here?

I think what marks out the British parenting approach is that children themselves are feared and moreso when they become teens. 'Actually, dd thinks Swedish parents give teens far more freedom and allow them to express their views more freely without thinking of it as "talking back" and that they have more of a say in family decisions. And they often have Saturday jobs and control over their own money anyway. ' There is a totally different mindset involved here.

The perception of even young children posing a threat to order in the home is definitely there and moreso than anywhere else I have been. There is a 'them and us' mentality. Parents seem to see themselves as holding a thin line against the children and against people who judge the family (you don't know how much you fear the judgement of others until you go somewhere where nobody seems to feel it) for being above them or beneath them, and the cult of maternal guilt is stoked constantly.

Britain is a society where there is the perception that if one group gets a little more of anything then the rest of society gets its portion diminished. A whack a mole interpretation, a feeling that there is a very limited amount in the pot. Hence the keeping up with the Joneses. If they get up a step then you fall back a step.

I agree about confidence. I had DS1 just at the point the Govt. introduced the Child Trust Fund. Everyone on my antenatal thread (not MN in those days ) said they would NOT put any extra money into it because they couldn't possibly trust an 18 year old with a big lump sum of money. I was utterly gobsmacked. An 18 year old can sign their whole life away into the Army or marriage or massive debt and you can't stop them. Why not educate them about the nest egg that is being built for them, so that you know they will spend it wisely instead of locking it all away from them with such mistrust?

I don't know, being British through and through I think I may need some help and pointers on actually achieving the confidence and trust I can see is important...

I think that you need to start the confidence and trust early on. Everytime you get a thread about an 8yr old being left alone for 5 mins or boiling a kettle you get someone saying they couldn't do it, their DC is far too dippy. Of course they are if you think they are.
Whenever you get to what a 16yr old can do or can't do you have to remind people that they are old enough to get married, join the army etc and they can surely catch a train or babysit a toddler.
We have got the ultimate (in my view) last week where a 22 yr old is thought to be too young to be a teacher and must get additional experience (not sure where from!)
18yr old do have to handle their own finances, they have student loans and the bank treats them like the adults they are and they will not give parents information. Universities treat them like adults and you won't get any information out of them. However I wonder how long it will be before they bow to parental pressure?
The last thread I was on was taking DCs to university for the first time-should they not at least make up the bed for them-and you think -why? Just drop and go-they can unpack themselves!
I think it is down to the British parent wanting control. Plenty of people get upset if they take their DC to a grandparent and the grandparent doesn't follow routines etc to the letter. On one hand they want to control the DCs environment at all times and on the other they are very insecure about it-have to read books and listen to others and then insist they are 'right' instead of 'right for them'.

I decided to do my own piece of research, and asked my boys this morning whether they would like more stuff, or to spend more time with us.

Without a flicker of doubt they shouted 'more stuff' (let it be said, they do not go without).

To my mind, that suggests we spend enough time together as a family.

Do you expect an honest answer whimsicalname? Mine would automatically say 'more stuff' if I asked them (being a mean mother)-it doesn't mean it is true-it is a mother answer.

I was in Holland recently for work. Every single woman I met worked part-time, including single girls who didn't have kids. It's accepted by everyone to be a Good Thing. One girl just wanted every other Friday off for some hobby and her boss said fine. THAT's what would make the difference over here, I think. Most people could just do with a smidgen more time.

yeah, I've often thought the world would be a better place if the standard working week was four days with three days of rest.

That's interesting that they said that whimsicalname. How old are they? Here in Switzerland, where far more mothers are SAHM or work very reduced hours, i am always reading articles where children have been asked that question and say 'we want more time with mummy, we don't care if there's less money'. But here it's the cultural norm for kids to have a lot of time with mummy, so they probably just don't want to be different. In Britain I suppose it's more the norm to have the stuff, so the kids want to be like their friends. That pretty much confirms what the unicef report said really.

bugster, the unicef report made it quite clear that children from all the three countries valued family time but that they also liked material goods- no difference there

and since Sweden was one of the countries studied, the value of SAHMs can hardly be relevant- there are very few of those in the country

But Cory haven't some psters said that although very few mothers are SAHM in Sweden, they generally have much more family friendly employers and more family time? I think think it seems clear fom the report, and most peoples' posts, that it's normal for mothers to work in all 3 countries, but what makes Spain and Sweden different from Bbritain is that somehow children there get more family time, either through help of extended family, social legislation or just cultural differences

I asked my 2 older boys, aged 5 and 7. My husband works full time (though not long hours usually), and I work in a slightly confused fashion, technically full time, but doing a PhD, which doesn't generally require actually working full time. I've also taken almost all the summer off to look after them, so i think they're sick of me!

Imo this goes back to what cory has said on an earlier post, that things don't have to be so polarised. Why a child has to choose between his mum and his i-pod?

Do both and cut a corner somewhere else.
(apparently in Spain where the diet supposed to be very healthy the working mum will often open the fridge and get some salami or cheese and melon out, she wont try to produce a 5star meal for a 'playday').

Whimsical I'm surprised that such young children said that. I asked my 6 yr old and she said she'd want more time with me, and she does have that a lot - I only work one day per week outside the home. She said she likes getting thinga too though. What kind of things do you think your boys would want more of?

For many years in this country, politicians of every ilk have blamed mothers parents and bad parenting for all the ills of society and then some. This mentality has become so ingrained in our thinking that parents are unable just to "be" and are constantly fretting about what to "do".

IS this true in other countries? Are parents constantly guilt-tripped by the media?

The increase in parental paranoia I have witnessed over the last 15 years since my DS was born makes me (sadly) very grateful that I don't have small kids now.

Tbh, Bugster, I think my boys would like more conkers and bits of fluff, not really the things that the report would think I'd be working my socks off for. I'd just been chatting with my husband about the report while we were having breakfast, and thought I'd ask. We've done various different arrangements over the years, but I think broadly we, and most of our friends, cut a pretty good balance, and it's interesting what children say if asked.