Are your children stuck in a "materialistic trap"? Your thoughts on Unicef's report about British children and family time, please!

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We wanted to let you know (if you haven't seen it already) that Unicef have just published a report in which they said that British children are caught in a "materialistic trap".

British children, they say, aren't able to spend enough time with their families (because British parents work such long hours) and their parents, feeling the pressure, "buy them off with branded goods".

"Consumer culture in the UK contrasts starkly with Sweden and Spain," say Unicef in their report, "where family time is prioritised, children and families are under less pressure to own material goods and children have greater access to activities out of the home."

What's your reaction to this? Do you agree with Unicef - or not?

And, if you agree, what could we all do about it?

Actually, scratch that. It's just the commute. My hours can be reasoable but the commute is killing. There are no jobs closer to home and dh is tied into his for the next four years (and would be mad to walk away).

I hate this think tankery. I agree few work for fripperies.

mathanxiety I think it is expected to the point of being encouraged here. I'm teetotal and when I had my first, there more than a few comments among the family over who was going to show him how to 'properly drink'/handle his alcohol since we couldn't (no concern that alcoholism runs in both of our families or thoughts he may not want to drink...). The discussion involved him being well before legal age when they would do this for various reasons. And these were all well-respected people planning this whereas where I am from one could talk about first beer/wine with dinner, but discussing who was going to be the first to try to get a child drunk would not be considered among the same group of people.

Why exactly I do not know, but there does seem to be a desire to see teenagers as a group to do as much risky behaviour to see what they can get away with and to be delighted in (whereas where I am from, some risky behaviour is expected but the respectable tried to squash it).

lemondifficult - "it seems possible that if you decrease the time a child spends with parents then you may decrease their influence over the child's world views and behaviour, and increase the opportunity for peers influence to fill the gap. This can have an impact on everything from teen pregnancy rates to consumerism and depression."

Just wanted to interject to say that I think thsi is absolutely true. A pretty good book on this is 'Hold On To Your Kids' - i've been reading it and finding lots that applies to our teenage boy.
www.amazon.co.uk/Hold-Your-Kids-Parents-Matter/dp/0375760288
I'm actually not a huge believer in attachment parenting, which is a premise of the book - but even so I found a lot to relate to and some good practical advice.

As for the report, even though it is a small and over-generalised sample, I've certainly heard enough anecdotal and seen enough first-hand evidence that the report doesn't surprise me. I don't think the comparison with other nations is particularly revealing, but I do think that the materialism amongst even small kids is extreme. And too many parents allow their children to have gadgets and toys which are simply far too adult for them. It's appalling...

But it is true that some people work those extra hours for material, and unnecessary, gain.

And children in the UK are not happy and carefree but that might have more to do with bedtime, socialising and TV than parents working.

Precious Mummy moments are exactly that, precious. Those that seek to demean them are a bit weird really. Who doesn't think time with their children and reaching miles stones as precious? Methinks she does protest too much.

I think that there is a lot of truth in it. Having said that I don't know how you get around it-parents have to work long hours, they have to commute, they are stressed.

Children do not want the 'quality' time where they are slotted in-they want quantity.

I also think they should have more time just to be. Even school is pressurised these days with attainment targets, testing etc. and 5 yr olds can tell you that they have to do well at school to get a good job.
When I was 5yrs old being grown up and getting a job was a very shadowy thing-so far in the distance that it wasn't seriously thought about. I didn't connect doing well in school with it-I just did well at school because I loved learning. There are poor little 3 yr olds being assessed for places in private schools. My 3 yr old would have put his thumb in his mouth and refused to speak and so he would have been written off at that age!

There was a thread where someone was asking if they should do without every pleasure in life to scrape enough for school fees and you think why? I look back on my childhood and although we didn't have expensive holidays it was that sort of thing that makes the memories. Imagine the pressure on the DC to succeed in that situation-as in 'we sacrificed it all for your education'-the poor DC has to succeed.

Children don't get freedom to go out out and play. They have 'playdates' arranged. When I was a DC you called for people, you worked out friendship problems for yourself. If you fell out you went home, you weren't left together because the DC wasn't being picked up for another hour. My DS has been running recently, about 4.30pm-even he remarked that he didn't see any DCs out playing-recreation grounds were empty-this shows that the problem is even worse. He is 20yrs old and he found it odd.

A DC's safety comes before anything else. One poster even said 'you wouldn't treat a Ming vase like that' As if they were similar! Treat a DC like a Ming vase and I expect that you would get mental health problems!!

Mention leaving an 8yr old for 10 mins at home alone and you will be told that social services will be taking your DC away-I did and they were not taken away and the house didn't burn down. They are not allowed to make a cup of tea aged 9yrs-they may scald themselves. Boys can't go into a men's changing room at the swimming pool aged 8yrs-they must stick with mother.
I think that all this is very damaging-they need independence and responsibility at an appropriate level.

There is an outcry if you let a 10yr old DD go to a family film on a Saturday afternoon with 2 friends and no adult and yet they feel safe to let the 10yr old have access to the internet alone in their bedroom-much more dangerous.

Parents not only want control of what the DC does-they want to channel their life-a B grade in GCSE was recently seen on here as 'failing'. They also think that because they gave birth they can tell the DC what to think-and they don't want outsiders giving alternative views.

I think that this is all relevant to the Unicef report. DCs don't need material things they need time-time to be bored, time to do nothing, time to just chat to parents, time to enjoy books together, time to eat together, time to cook together, time to play cards, board games, time to walk in the countryside,time to be given responsibily and time to be given trust, time to learn skills, time to work out friendships for themselves, time to risk assess for themselves, time to get plenty of sleep.

Agree with exoticfruits. Think we are in serious danger of raising spoilt nincompoops!

I think that parents preoccupation with safety is perhaps more damaging than anything else.

The research that went into Spirit Level correlates the measure of overall happiness and success of a society with the size of gap between the richest and poorest citizens. The UK has a far greater polarity between rich and poor than Sweden, and less overall happiness and other indicators of a stable, successful society. From my time oin Norway I would definitley say there is less snobbery and consciousness of social class than there is in the UK. Maybe this means that we are more competitive and riven to prove by any means necessary that our children have stuff, get what rich kids get, etc.

I doubt many people work long hours to buy gadgets - to have a second home, lavish hols, huge house, more so. And certainly peopel get into debt to buy expensive high status stuff for their kids. The MN threads at christmas demonstrate that. Though of course there are also many many parents who are realistic and practical about thier need to say 'no' to an iTouch for a 4 yo.

I agree about safety and micro managing thier time and social life.

Blu I very much agreed with your post further up the thread about getting out there into the fresh air.

It alwaus seems to me that people (adults and children) who spend time outside are generally happier. Walking, cycling, riding all have the effect of lifting the spirits in a way that goingt o the gym doesn't.

I live a complicated life in many ways...DH works long hurs is often away, family live over 200 miles away, I work to tight and often pressured deadlines, I have two DC in two different schools etc and yet I am the proverbial Pollyanna. I think the fact that I walk for at least an hou everyday whatever the weather is a huge help with my emotional well being.

My DC too seem to treat all the so-called pressures of life lightly. Partly this is their disposition, but I also think some of it is due to the sheer amount of time they spend outdoors, both doing sport and also walking and riding.

We wouldn't for example, as a family forgo a walk in the country at the weekends whatever the weather. And holidays often involve hiking or sailing.

I think that fresh air everyday (all waethers) works wonders. Parents wouldn't have the sleep/eating problems if they exhausted their DCs late afternoon.

Sorry-don't know what happened to my typing! Perhaps in Sweden etc they get out more. Certainly when I was young you got home from school and you went to call for friends and you played outside.

I had an Omani student staying with me in the summer - she asked me more than once where where all the children? Why do the children stay indoors and not come outside and play?

Here's a realistic view on this www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/e-jane-dickson-families-need-teatime-prattle-2354836.html

I thought it a good article-mainly because she agreed with my post! 'Quality time' set her teeth on edge. She thought it just time-time for prattle, 'in' family jokes, picking up on manners, time for nonsense etc.

YES.

Six year olds having iPods- no matter how you control it- it's a bliddy iPod! What they need is a book, a garden or a train set. Not something that does all your thinking for you.

I agree with the report!!!

I also believe that the british culture is almost forcing women to have to work - we certainly couldn't afford a 'decent' 3-bed semi where we live on just one wage (We live in the midlands). When I was growing up, we lived comfortably in a 4 bed detached, and my mom didn't have to work (My dad was self-emplyed and did work many many hours though!!!). Back then, there were very few 'playgroups' or activities that are available today, ot the gadgets too - we just played with our friends, out on our bikes, jigsaws in winter etc - it was great!!!!

Now I do feel pressure to buy the gadgets for my DD - they are also pretty affordable - we get so many things from the car boots!!!!!

Always the media over-simplify! For what it is worth we left the SE and commuting as DINKs and relocated to a hill farm in rural Wales two decades ago and now have a teenage boy and girl and one main grade teacher's salary between us! They went to FT day nursery from 6 months and loved it - before the critical 7 month separation anxiety sets in. School seemed a bit of a let down after a fab nursery so we home educated them for 4.5 years and they are now back in school - son just done GCSEs and now in Sixth Form. We are squeezed into a tiny cottage but they have the freedom of the outdoors and horses/ponies, working sheep dog, cat, hens etc. So we have none of the branded goods (well a few I got on ebay where all our clothes etc comes from and my son was given an X Box 5 years ago that is still in its box somewhere!)

Real life is so hectic and exciting with animals and vehicles that are always breaking down! We have so many hilarious stories and both YPs are talking of getting married (!) and the children they want to have (!!!). We are all pulling together - so I suppose we have a close and dynamic family life - it would be easier if finances were not so fragile but we count our blessings and I wouldn't exchange it for the lifestyles of uni friends and relatives who are mega-rich but strangely artificial in their lifestyles. Where will it lead? Well the inevitable 'flu pandemic will put us all in the melting pot won't it?

Why do the British send small children to nursery even if there is a parent at home? Have noticed this a lot (and even my elderly childless aunt once remarked to me that having a small child underfoot all day every day would drive her scatty).

'and even my elderly childless aunt once remarked to me that having a small child underfoot all day every day would drive her scatty.'

Quite! If I won the lottery, shortly after finding a nanny, I'd find a good school with a boarding option.

Regardless of the small sample, I tend to agree with many of its findings. Most of my friends say they need to work full time - however, they seem to spend lots of money on their own hair, clothes and make up and on their chn's clothes, toys etc. They are consumers and don't 'need' to work. They simply want to be able to continue to buy, buy, buy. There is a difference. I have chosen to work p/t and spend quality time with my kids every day but we have had to sacrifice a lot of the luxuries we indulged ourselves with before we had children. It's not always easy but I hope I'm teaching my children the value of not having everything they want as I don't get everything I want either! Actions speak louder than words IMHO.

I do wonder if the current recession will change our social out look for the better as money and jobs diminish

I agree vbambino - I too only work a 3 day week - it's what I NEED to work to be able to afford the 'essentials'.

I choose to work a 3 day week so I get more time with my DD - so I also choose NOT to be able to have the great hair styles, new fashion trends, or latest gizmo's - for myself (just sometimes for my DD!!!)!!