Are your children stuck in a "materialistic trap"? Your thoughts on Unicef's report about British children and family time, please!

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We wanted to let you know (if you haven't seen it already) that Unicef have just published a report in which they said that British children are caught in a "materialistic trap".

British children, they say, aren't able to spend enough time with their families (because British parents work such long hours) and their parents, feeling the pressure, "buy them off with branded goods".

"Consumer culture in the UK contrasts starkly with Sweden and Spain," say Unicef in their report, "where family time is prioritised, children and families are under less pressure to own material goods and children have greater access to activities out of the home."

What's your reaction to this? Do you agree with Unicef - or not?

And, if you agree, what could we all do about it?

Schools may well discourage competition-however they don't succeed!

It is interesting to have someone who knows what it is like in Sweden. I know that cory always says they have more independence and responsibility when people are saying they can't possibly let their 9yr old walk to the local shop.

Many of us don't have a choice do we? The 'stuff' we have to go to work to buy for our children are essentials such as food, heating and clothes.

Unfortunately for my children I work but cannot even afford to buy them off with material goods to compensate. So it appears they have the worst of both worlds.

Cory, I agree with your DD's perceptions of Swedish attitudes vs. British and what they say about the British environment for childern, though from the perspective of recollections of American middle class attitudes vs. British. You could substitute American middle class for Swedish and not miss a beat.

I see the uniformless public education environment in the US as emblematic of the difference in attitude. Schools that have uniforms tend to be schools more inclined to follow the British model of thought wrt children -- parochial schools everywhere (hierarchical, toe the line-Catholic Church attitude here) and inner city schools where increasing orderliness through a more military style approach by admin is deemed necessary for disadvantaged children.

Ellie, someone else said earlier that once your kids get to a certain age, they really don't want too much of your attention! And at any age, as long as they usually get the attention they need - if not from you, from someone - they'll be alright.

Imo, as a parent you have to be vigilant and there when they need you, but you are setting them a good example by working and by not wasting money on useless things.

The trouble with the reporting of research like this is that it immediately makes people feel guilty. If your children are unhappy, then obviously you need to change something - but if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Broadband is an absolute necessity.

Solopower - I love you

To be fair to the report, there was nothing in it that suggested that working mothers was a problem in itself. That is an inference drawn by British newspapers, not by the Unicef study.

In fact, it made clear that Swedish and Spanish mothers were just as likely to be working.

I can vouch for the fact that SAHPs is not a common phenomenon in Sweden these days; I'd say far less so than in the UK. My db had to give it up because there was simply nobody for his boys to play with- all the other kids were at nursery.

What the report seemed to be saying was "yes, mums work in these countries too, but they have a better work/life balance, they get more support from their partners (or in the case of Spain, parents), they worry less about keeping up with the Joneses and they find it easier to entertain their children without spending lots of money".

Maybe they simply go outside and play with other DCs instead of 'playdates' and organised activities-(I don't know-just a thought.)

Cory, I'm glad the research has been done, but we can't rely on our newspapers to interpret it for us. (We don't need to anyway, as you are doing such a good job!)

I think we have to develop a bit of a shell, tbh. We need to note what has been reported, but apply common sense to our own situations.

I think children in sweden are much more part of and embraced by society. I think IKEA is a good example of how Scandinavians embrace family life and living. Swedish parents play more with their children and listen to them. They also have much less angst about schooling and child development. I just think they are more chilled.

I have just been reading the thread about bedtimes and routines and now this thread and the report makes sense to me

I'm quite cross about how badly newspapers have misinterpreted this. Funny how the British press spin was "oh it's mums fault for going to work" when the actual report was saying "working is irrelevant mothers need more support from the rest of the family." It's a bit bloody different isn't it?!

Well, whoever wrote this hasn't met my kids. Ive Just tried to get my two to come for a walk with me. No chance. Apparently it's cold and they're tired and they want to lie in bed and watch tv.

Last year we moved to the outskirts of town, we have woods, lakes, streams etc on our doorstep. Do they rush off out for Enid Blyton type adventures? No they prefer to play indoors at our house or indoors at their friends houses who live nearby.

My ds has a PS and a Wii, but he is desperate for an X box. I am refusing to buy one. If I offered him an X box or umpteen hours of my undivided attention I know which he would choose.

How so Laquitar?

Hi mathanxiety, what i meant is how the hell you have family fun if children go to bed at 6pm (considering that most people return home at around six). And how your dh or extended family can get involved and support you if you are obsessed with routines and with bedtimes. If children have school i understand it but if they are preschoolers or it is holidays i don't see the big deal.

Maybe Sweden and Spanish parents don't read too many books and reports and they don't break sweat about them. They don't have very fixed ideas so they know that if grandma visits at 6pm once or the kids play pillow fight with the cousins at 7pm this will not turn them into criminals 20 yrs later fgs.

I think the two nations that do well in the report have very different culture, lifestyle, climate etc. between each other. What they have in common is confidence. They don't fear the child guru, every published article, the woman in the street who 'looked in the pram with judging expression for the dummy/blanket', or the class system (which doesn't even exist there). So they don't waste their energy, they enjoy the 'now', and they do what suits their family on each stage.

Sorry, this was long post and it sounds like a lecture

Really good point Laquitar

Bastarddog... My 3rd child was like your ds LOVED all screens and I found myself riddled with guilt and blaming myself. By the time dc4 cane along I decided against the screen thing and who knows if it is luck or judgement - but the second three if my dc are totally in the Enid blyton mold ... They love the out doors and making a days entertainment out of sticks or something. Ds3 has asked for a 'walk' for his party ( January )
I am not claiming that my second threes upbringing is better or superior BUT I definitely find it easier, they seem more calm and content. There is no pester power and I feel more relaxed as a parent.
I spent a lot of time with dc1-3 saying 'no' because they pestered for screens etc then feeling crap about them being on them

BastardDog thank god for you. Mine too.

If it was as simple as giving them more time rather than stuff, we'd all be doing it if we could. DH and I both work from home so we are here more than most, and always available to them. The fact is, sometimes they'd rather have the stuff, because it's their thing and their way of being better than us at something, and I've no problem with that. I just don't buy this idea that children are heroically suffering in front of the xbox just because mummy and daddy are too busy to go and build forts with them in the woods.

WRT teens and respect as Cory mentioned.. I the major problem with teens in Britain is that parents are almost scared to be seen to 'parent'
The stroppy teen pulls 'everyone else...' has/ does/ owns/wears delete as applicable - and today's parents succumb
I often feel dp and me to be swimming against the tide in trying to parent our teens in today's culture - saying no to a teenager is HARD I admit but I don't think it is done enough...

Excellent post from Laquitar-very true.

laquitar

One of the most sensible posts I have EVER seen on Mumsnet.

Omg

Thank you.

ReadRideABikeSwim Sun 18-Sep-11 12:47:44
"WRT teens and respect as Cory mentioned.. I the major problem with teens in Britain is that parents are almost scared to be seen to 'parent'
The stroppy teen pulls 'everyone else...' has/ does/ owns/wears delete as applicable - and today's parents succumb
I often feel dp and me to be swimming against the tide in trying to parent our teens in today's culture - saying no to a teenager is HARD I admit but I don't think it is done enough..."

Actually, dd thinks Swedish parents give teens far more freedom and allow them to express their views more freely without thinking of it as "talking back" and that they have more of a say in family decisions. And they often have Saturday jobs and control over their own money anyway.

One thing that dd mentioned is that she knows several of her Swedish friends have had sex, and even multiple boyfriends and noone sees it as a problem- perhaps because pregnancy very rarely follows- whereas in England similar behaviour would get a girl labelled "a slag".

I think both our feeling is that things are far less polarised in Sweden: a young girl can have serial boyfriends (what we would think of as "sleeping around") and still be expected to join granddad on his fishing trip- there is not the big divide between "good" teens and "bad". Dd particularly mentioned the fact that two of her Swedish cousins left school after A-levels and got unqualififed jobs and nobody got flustered or worried about them dropping down the social ladder. Whereas educated parents in the UK would see this as a tragedy.