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Original poster

Dale Farm et al

361 replies

AnneWiddecomesArse · 05/09/2011 22:51

A continuation...

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 07/09/2011 00:15

'...the law is there for a reason. To protect others.'

Well that is where you have got it exactly wrong, SarahStratton. The law is there to protect everyone.

I haven't mentioned the Rathkeale community, WG; maybe you are thinking of someone else's post about them?

I have seen the sites that used to be strung along the roads on the outskirts of Tallaght and I am also familiar with these shenanigans IN Fingal in N. Dublin. (Note the interesting references to the value of land)

Maryz · 07/09/2011 07:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SarahStratton · 07/09/2011 07:57

The law is there to protect others. From lawbreakers. I should have finished with that, I thought it was obvious enough to not have to.

ExitPursuedByATroll · 07/09/2011 08:45

Report in the paper this morning that lawyers acting for the travellers at Dale Farm had asked for £6 million to move on. The council refused as it would mean the travellers would be benefitting from illegal activities.

Is it a shame that it all comes down to money in the end?

IfoundmyGspot · 07/09/2011 09:14

The council screwed up by not evicting them 20 years ago. Its not right that the residents will have to stump up the cash through their council tax because of a council cock up.

Let them stay but put a sale restriction on the land so it can never be sold for profit, ie: temporary planning permission for as long as a 'van' remains on the site...once a van has gone that plot no longer has planning permission. Dump a huge block of concrete on it so it can't be used. Eventually the place will look like a giant lego set.

If they are real 'travellers' it will eventually empty out.

WhollyGhost · 07/09/2011 09:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Maryz · 07/09/2011 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fargate · 07/09/2011 09:43

Pleased to see that the negotiations/mediation/arbitration are ongoing. Not sure how helpful it is to be leaking the details to the press until a deal is done.

I agree that the travellers shouldn't be 'paid to move on' or move out - tho' the £18 million at stake does provide huge leverage for the LA in peacefully resolving this impasse.

Same article said that travellers have plans to re-locate to Birmingham or Scotland.

ExitPursuedByATroll · 07/09/2011 10:16

I wonder how Scotland would deal with the issue. Do they have different laws?

Teachermumof3 · 07/09/2011 10:30

No bloody way should they get paid to move on-that would open the floodgates for lots of deliberate situations held up by legal wranglings and delays and demands for cash.

I wonder what the plan is-lots of police and lots of bulldozers!? I presume the plans are all hush hush so noone gets wind of it beforehand.

Teachermumof3 · 07/09/2011 10:52

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14801980

I wonder if the local families will start to send their children here again?!

fargate · 07/09/2011 11:26

I have no idea, exit. GentleOtters thread about the complexities of Scottish land law & her landlord are very educational.

bubbles4 · 07/09/2011 12:05

I know this is a bit late but earlier in the thread people were asking the difference between Romany gypsies and Travellers,a lot of information is here,can I also add that although the site is called travellers times the author is a Romany gypsy.

WhollyGhost · 07/09/2011 12:20

I am sure the leak will be strategic. The Rathkeale travellers currently have the mainstream media on their side, which makes it difficult for the council to act.

If you want an indication of the travellers' wealth mentioned in the last thread see here for example:
www.sundayworld.com/columnists/index.php?aid=3893

You can see some of the locked down mansions in Rathkeale on google maps

Teachermumof3 · 07/09/2011 12:34

The Rathkeale travellers currently have the mainstream media on their side

Do you think this is true? I'm local to Crays Hill and I felt that the local reporting has been quite negative about the travellers.

Teachermumof3 · 07/09/2011 12:39

This local paper seems to suggest that if the travellers are moved off the section of land without planning permission, they will simply move onto the plot next door which does have planning permission!

WhollyGhost · 07/09/2011 13:07

From what I've seen of the media coverage (mostly in the Guardian and on tv), it has been in the travellers' favour. Lazy journalism, based on romantic notions about traveller culture.

trulyscrumptious43 · 07/09/2011 13:31

A point of view which seems to be sadly lacking on MN.
I am a traveller.

mweedsuk.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/dale-farm-to-all-our-shame%E2%80%A6/

WhollyGhost · 07/09/2011 13:39

trulyscrumptious - can I ask, what do you see as the best solution here?

ExitPursuedByATroll · 07/09/2011 13:56

You see, I have vague romantic notions of gypsy culture (too much Enid Blyton as a child), but those notions do not stack up with the reality that I have witnessed from accounts on here, programmes on tv (not MBFGW) and my own experience many, many years ago when some 'people' moved onto a building site near my mother's school.

I am all for live and let live, and feel we need to find a permanent solution to the issue. I have found the opinons and experiences expressed on this thread absolutely fascinating.

If you think we need to change our opinion truly perhaps you could help us to do that.

fargate · 07/09/2011 13:56

whollyghost have you seen the DM coverage!! Or the comments in the Daily Telegraph? Or the Sun headline today?

''Big Fat £16 million 'bribe' to end Gypsy Camp''

PigletJohn · 07/09/2011 14:13

Truly, I had a look at the link you posted. Obviously, just like the Daily Wail (which I dislike intensely) it is written from One Point Of View.

The opinions I have expressed are based purely on the principle that people should not be permitted and encouraged to break the law.

BTW I will take issue with (for a start) one bit of the link you posted

"Firstly, according to a 2006 Commission for Racial Equality report, 90% of Traveller planning applications are initially rejected, compared to 20% overall ? a clear indication that there is indeed ?unfairness?, but in quite a different way to that suggested by the Prime Minister"

This is NOT of itself a clear indication of unfairness. We don't know how many of the non-Traveller applications were, for example, to have a loft conversion or build a conservatory on an existing house, and how many of them were to build a hundred new homes on Green Belt land. Nor do we know how many of the Traveller applications were. You can make a guess, if you want, which sort of application is more likely to be turned down.

mathanxiety · 07/09/2011 14:23

'Firstly, according to a 2006 Commission for Racial Equality report, 90% of Traveller planning applications are initially rejected, compared to 20% overall ? a clear indication that there is indeed ?unfairness?, but in quite a different way to that suggested by the Prime Minister.'

'This is NOT of itself a clear indication of unfairness. ' (PigletJohn)

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trulyscrumptious43 · 07/09/2011 14:30

PigletJohn...Try clicking on the link which shows the use of the land before the travellers bought it...it was not the 'Green Belt' of popular fantasy.

Although these travellers don't live their lives in the way in which I do, I understand their difficulty in persuing their way of life. Thatcher's and subsequent governments have made it impossible (read illegal) for travellers to continue a moving way of life so they have been forced to settle. I don't think there is an easy answer but you could look at the thousands of empty properties in this countries, domestic and industrial, for part of your answer.

And I would like anyone who makes a disparaging comment about Travellers to substitute the word 'black' or 'jewish' instead of 'traveller' to test out their balanced opinion first. Travellers are an ethnic minority.