Depraved or deprived: What lies behind these riots, and why aren't they happening in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

[Solopower]

I've been reading the threads on the riots and I wondered if we needed one on the causes.

People's ideas seem to range from thinking the rioters are just opportunistic criminals to socially and culturally disadvantaged youngsters.

But why isn't there any rioting in Scotland, for example, where there are pockets of extreme social deprivation?

Zoe Williams' article on the psychology of looting is worth reading, imo:
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting?CMP=twt_gu

public sector cuts are savage
i dont agree with sakura socialsciencetastic "male wankery" searing explanation
i do agree the pissing rain and general dreich is factor in no going oot

Jooly

Structural power is not about your feelings.

That's why it's called "structural power"

I feel I have the same power as the prime minister. Doesn't make it so.

Men as a group have an extraordinary amount of structural power compared to women. Look at rape statistics if you don't believe me. Look at the percentage of MPs in parliament who are men. Look at the percentege of people who own multi-national conglomerates: men, all men.

well you just stick to weather forecasts then scottishmummy

k99

The Fawcett society are taking the government to court because the cuts have specifically targeted women (who are already poorer) and disproportionately support men (who, as a group, are far wealthier)

Not only are the cuts affecting women, they're being aimed at women

The Fawcett Society has drawn up a document and taken it to The Equality and Human Rights Commission:

"The coalition government?s emergency budget could be branded unlawful after a groundbreaking legal case was launched in the high court. Papers filed on Friday claim that Treasury officials broke the law by failing to carry out an assessment of whether the plans for heavy spending cuts would hit women hardest.

The action is being taken by the country?s leading women?s rights group in what is believed to be the first ever legal challenge to a British government?s budget. The Fawcett Society, which believes the plans ?risk rolling back women?s equality in the UK by a generation?, is being represented by barristers from Matrix Chambers, which was co-founded by Cherie Booth, wife of the former prime minister Tony Blair. It follows research that suggested women would shoulder three quarters of the pain inflicted by the budget." link

and you need to cut the verbal keech and overall anger
you come across v perplexed,angry and with a bag full of cliches about men
do you have a son?is he or will he too grow to be a male wanker and all round git embedded in hegemony?your global and sweeping views are discriminatory

People= men + women
As a subset men=males; women=females. I can't do a Venn Diagram, but yes, girl is a subset of people.

a link to the Fawcett society's case against the government, for the fact it specifically targeted women for cuts is not a "Bag full of cliches"

this is the sort of denial you have to deal with, when you fight for women

Some black people opposed abolition, many women fought against women's right to vote.

You are always going to get women who would rather fight for men than for women.

I'm off to bed now. I can't seem to follow anything on MN tonight.....

jooly can you respond to my post about you "feeling" women are as powerful as men, structurally,

even though hard data proves you're wrong

k999 No, don't leave me

With regard to the weather - I thought it was an undistputed fact that IN GENERAL public disorder and unrest are more common during prolonged periods of hot weather.

Which London and the SE of England have had recently.

And which Scotland, Wales and Ireland haven't:even though they did have NEARLY a week of temps reaching around 18 degrees and not much rain prior to the London riots. At least the temp didn't get much above that here (in South Wales).

So I think it is relevant to the question of factors which mean the disorder didn't spread to these regions. Which is the aspect we are debating, Sakura - not the general causes of the riots, but the reasons why certain parts of the UK did not join in, whilst others did.

no dont do that oppositional what about men thang
you cannot ewheel that tired cliché out if your view is challenged.doesnt mean i dont know injustices or how structural inequality disadvantages people

so no dont do a puerile.oooh rather stick up for da man than us wimmin
not one of us.must be a male apologist

do intellectually work on your discourse. simply reproducing stats and links, and brushing aside unwanted challenges as ignoring female discrimination.well its not very rigorous

i wait on your riposte...
some stats and cut and paste
a what about the men quip

I don't understand how rape statistics, given the very nature of rape, can be construed as "structural power" We did have a female PM, and to say women can't rise higher in the power stakes is not true.

As far as I am concerned, I have equal opportunities to a man. And you saying it isn't so doesn't make it not so. I have had no problems achieving whatever I wanted to in life, my gender does not hold me back. To make everything all about the men is, to me, tantamount to suggesting that we women have no power, and should therefore sit back and wring our hands. Do you honestly think the female looters were there just because men made them do it?

This thread was originally about why the scots, Irish etc weren't rioting. Are you trying to say that it is because there are no men in these countries? What would your solution be then, sakura- exterminate all the men, so that women could live in a blissful and equal society? I just really don't get your take on this.

I don't know the reason why women are not as successful as women Scrummie.Why don't you tell me?.I am merely answering the previous posters question from earlier.As far as i am aware this thread is about the causes of the riots and therefore this topic is completely incidental.

oakmaiden, i don't think anyone is disputing that hot weather is a factor in street riots, i think in fact it generally is. weren't the LA riots after a long hot period as well?

all i am repeatedly doing is responding to the posters who have arrived in Scotland in the past couple of days and are commenting on the rain as having put people off rioting. it is pissing down at the moment, flooding in some areas, but actually it wasn't previously, that's all.

i am becoming too embroiled in weather stuff... i do think sakura is making some interesting points, tbh, but it is hard to engage with them because she is presenting the information in such a speech-making way.

true.sean batty couldnt have put it better

speech making way?
aye,a cut & paste didactic rant

Aitch - I was responding to Sakura's rather patronising remark to scottishmummy "well you just stick to weather forecasts then scottishmummy".

I just felt she was being a bit rude, so felt like sticking my 3p worth in. :)

gotcha, oakmaiden.

i do think that it is interesting about the testosterone element here, though. it's a shame that we can't discuss it without the frothing, i think.

lol,i clearly touched a wee nerve with sakura
but its ok for her to be patronising as it female to female.
if a man were to make such a quip shed be flexing her cut and paste fingers and hyperventilating

Re the weather...nothing new with that theory, as the man said:

SCENE I. A public place.

MERCUTIO, BENVOLIO, Page, and Servants
BENVOLIO
I pray thee, good Mercutio, let's retire:
The day is hot, the Capulets abroad,

And, if we meet, we shall not scape a brawl;
For now, these hot days, is the mad blood stirring.

MERCUTIO
Thou art like one of those fellows
that when he enters the confines of a
tavern claps me his sword upon the table
and says 'God send me no need of thee!'
and by the operation of the second cup draws it on the drawer,

when indeed there is no need.

Anyway, ladies, I am off to bed, as have to get up and work in the morning! Will look in with interest in the morning!

oh bloody fucking fuck about the weather. IT WAS WARM UP HERE AS WELL.