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Depraved or deprived: What lies behind these riots, and why aren't they happening in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

602 replies

Solopower · 10/08/2011 09:22

I've been reading the threads on the riots and I wondered if we needed one on the causes.

People's ideas seem to range from thinking the rioters are just opportunistic criminals to socially and culturally disadvantaged youngsters.

But why isn't there any rioting in Scotland, for example, where there are pockets of extreme social deprivation?

Zoe Williams' article on the psychology of looting is worth reading, imo:
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting?CMP=twt_gu

OP posts:
Solopower · 11/08/2011 22:19

Link to Niceguy's thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/1278160-Tough-Justice

OP posts:
Solopower · 11/08/2011 22:19

Link to the article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14483149

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Solopower · 11/08/2011 22:24

Beautifully put, SeniorWrangler!

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AitchTwoOh · 11/08/2011 22:25

OMG lifeisabsurd! i think you have it. it IS all scotland's fault.

i do wish that the english holidaymakers on this thread would stop yakking about the rain. it hasn't been 'torrential' up here, until two days ago. until then it has been the usual drizzly summer, one that doesn't stop scottish people from doing anything they want to do, including rioting if necessary.

K999 · 11/08/2011 22:28

Brave heart? Historically accurate? Really? In want sense?

KateMiddletonsEyebrows · 11/08/2011 22:29

There are flood warnings on BBC Scotland news as I speak @aitch - a month's rain in one day - and the most rain in one day since records began in Glasgow....

Joolyjoolyjoo · 11/08/2011 22:31

Ach rain, schmain. It's like that quote from Mrs Brown re Noah and his ark "It rained for 40 days and 40 nights and they call it a flood? Here we call it the summer"

Rain is why our neds wear so much hairgel- so their nappers are waterproof.

SeniorWrangler · 11/08/2011 22:39

Didn't finish - was watching Torchwood whilst typing! Meant to say it is like the kinds of arguments the Victorians used, particularly in relation to the Irish famine.

Solopower · 11/08/2011 22:41

They don't mention the lack of a sense of community/identity on that list, or personal responsibility, as being among the reasons that Scotland Wales and N Ireland haven't been caught up in it. Plus the weather and the midgies!

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Solopower · 11/08/2011 22:44

Well I think between us all we've got it nailed. So if we know what the causes are, we can find the solutions. Don't you think that we'd make a better job of sorting it out than the millionaire politicians?

Seriously.

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Lifeisquiteabsurd · 11/08/2011 22:50

K999
"Brave heart? Historically accurate? Really? In want sense?"

Errr, it is just possible that AitchTwoOh and I were being a tad sarcastic in our references to Braveheart.

K999 · 11/08/2011 22:56

Sorry...bit tired tonight.... Not really following what is going on....

AitchTwoOh · 11/08/2011 23:00

i have no doubt that a long hot summer will contribute to a situation where rioting might occur, i have no doubt that a very rainy period would dissuade people from rioting but... blardy hell... please, and for the last time... it was not raining worth a fuck when the riots were happening in England. honest, it wasn't.

AitchTwoOh · 11/08/2011 23:07

lol at K999 btw. Grin must've been a VERY wtf moment.

NormanTebbit · 11/08/2011 23:38

I read an article about how they're doing it in New York - they have strong community leaders and much of this anti social action is dealt with at a local level. It is very successful.

If you close down youth and community services who do these children identify with?

So I would work on youth services, community leaders - but apparently there's no money for it.

duckdodgers · 11/08/2011 23:38

I can back you up on that aitch - rain only started a few days ago, it was nice last weekend and we had a run of dry sunny days with temps high, well high for us, 22-24 degrees c. Grin

AitchTwoOh · 11/08/2011 23:46

THANK you.

sakura · 11/08/2011 23:47

I've been looking at some excellent articles talking about how the media highlights the tiny percentage of females that participated in order to pretend this was not a gendered event.
Found this comment in particular to be enlightening:

"Malestream media always refers to men/man/boy/boys as ?people? because these men/man/boys/boy are not ?males? they are the default humans and therefore no need for malestream media to refer to their biological sex. Women/girls/females are not default humans and therefore malestream media has to refer to said women/woman/girls/girl as being women etc. because women/woman/girls/girl are not default human. Confusing? Not at all given we live in a male supremacist society and system wherein males have declared themselves to be default humans so in order to maintain this hierarchy the majority of human race have to be routinely identified as ?female/woman/girl/girls in order not to confuse malestream media and male politicians who also think world revolves around white powerful men and their interests.

Men are men ? they are not ?sex? that is what women are ? ?sex? and nothing else. So too malestream use of term ?youth? refers to adolescent boys who are not children but have not yet been accorded their adult male status. Women are always girls until such time as they reach the age malestream media views as ?obsolete? and then females become ?elderly vulnerable people!?

?Why is adolescent male wankery always treated as the be all and end all of human experience ?? Answer because men for centuries have claimed and continue to claim world was created by men for men?s benefit and interests. Women aren?t human but just exist to serve men 24/7 in whatever way men demand. Or to put another way ? because male supremacist system has not changed one iota since men created it ? the delusion continues that world revolves around males and their needs/violence against other males etc.

Latest riots and looting are all about males clashing with other males and male struggle for male power and domination over other males. Male voices and male violence against other males is ?news? but male violence and male domination over women is not ?news? because it is the unchanging natural male order/male system ? or so male supremacy claims.

Economic cuts aren?t affecting women and girls are they? Because only when something affects males does it become important and in urgent need of ?fixing!? It?s all about men and their grievances against other men again and again and again ad nauseum.

Why aren?t we hearing calls for fathers of these teenage boys and young men to use their adult male authority and ensure their sons aren?t venturing out in to public streets and disrupting women?s and girls? right to access public spaces free from male violence and male intimidation. Instead it is supposedly ?parents? who are to blame ? yet another code word for ?mothers? because mothers are always responsible for their male children?s behaviour despite women having little or no structural power whatsoever. But scapegoating ?parents? (mothers) is common practice for male politicians and their apologists because we must never analyse just how our male supremacist system operates. Or why power and wealth continues to be retained by a tiny percentage of white middle class males." Link

scottishmummy · 11/08/2011 23:49

what a rambling post. male wankery?
youve got female verbal diarrhoea

K999 · 11/08/2011 23:53

I don't see how you think the economic cuts aren't affecting women?? Confused

scottishmummy · 11/08/2011 23:54

who are you talking too
whos the humphy face for

sakura · 11/08/2011 23:55

The ones on here who are saying women are just as responsible as men for the violence must be really scourging the internet for examples of women comitting violent acts and looting.

Coz every time I go on youtube and see a new uploaded video it is Always. Only. Ever. of "people". People, of course, refers to men. Men, refers to people. The videos I've seen have been of only men.

I've even seen one of a police officer truncheoning a male youth to the ground, the second police officer behind him stamping on him as he walked past, and then a third police officer stooping down to pick up the battered boy.
Guess which sex the first two police offers were? Guess which sex the third police officer was.

Joolyjoolyjoo · 11/08/2011 23:56

I object to the idea that women have "no structural power whatsoever". It's statements like that, where women accept that we are powerless while men do as they like that reinforce the idea that women are powerless. I have never felt that way in my life, and I am not about to start now.

You keep telling girls and women that they have no say, that they have no part, that they are merely pawns, and that undermines the message that women, indeed, DO have choices, and power. To blame it on the men is to say that they hold all the power, and that is a weak and self-fulfilling statement, INO

sakura · 11/08/2011 23:57

BBC news:

Nottingham riots. Girl aged 11 among 17 people charged

People=men= human=people

Women/girls= females

I don't think this could be clearer.

K999 · 11/08/2011 23:57

SM I'm talking to the poster who said "economic cuts aren't affecting women"

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