Tottenham rioting

[sfxmum]

has anyone heard? seems to be all over Twitter but not on other media
apparently police cars burning

In a country with free education, free health services and robust safety net of welfare there is no reason for this behaviour.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink is springing to mind.

These people (the rioters) have been provided with everything, yet they choose to blatantly disregard it. They're not starving, they don't have to walk days for water, they havnt been scooped into an "army" as children. What the actual fuck is so wrong with their lives that they cannot see what they are doing is wrong and why don't they care?

Why do people persist in saying that the system has let all these rioters down?

Thank you! I'd say a lot of it is down to parents who just don't give a fuck.

Isn't that precisely what Labour did for 13 years? Chuck cash at the problem?

Good job, Gordy, nice one

Lucrezia well how do you explain that Richmond has never had riots?

Are you saying that the people of Richmond have it just as hard and are just nicer people?

Please explain.

Unemployable?

Well,there's a thought...

I wouldn't employ most of them.

Were i ever in a position to do so.

Labour didn't chuck cash at the problem of deprivation in Inner cities. They chucked cash at the NHS, they chucked cash at Education services which benefited everyone equally.

BTW I am not saying that the services and money hasn't been made available just that it has not been used to its best advantage. I agree there is something fundamental wrong here. Why do they feel it is ok to walk off with 3 boxes of trainers that they didn't work or pay for? I couldn't afford 3 pairs of those either but I wouldn't steal them! Instead of putting their energy into gangs they could do something constructive but they don't seem to want to. My ex was from that area mixed race and went to a dreadful school but his mother was a brilliant woman and her sons all made something of their lives. This is a deep problem but needs to be tackled

bullet with respect, i don't think that is entirely fair. as an example, there are several people on MN who are dealing with teens going off the rails and they are very involved, loving and law abiding parents!

Most of them work bloody hard. Reelingin, don't be so patronising. If you walk round Tottenham of an afternoon you don't see hundreds of people loafing around. Most of them are at work.

Why would you not employ someone from Tottenham exactly?

sing that is a great image - rioting in richmond due to a shortage of decaf lattes or Joules polo shirts

noddyholder, agree that it has to be tackled. Agree that money isn't there to the extent that it is needed. Sorry but this does need money chucked at it. Tottenham needs brilliant schools, brilliant doctors and brilliant services. What they get is the dregs that nobody else wants to employ (Gt Ormond SH is a case in point - they cream off the best paediatricians for central London and Haringey get the trainees).

I would say that all the people i saw on the news chucking bricks and traffic cones at the police cars were probably not people who had to get up and go to work in the morning.

I said nothing about not wanting to employ someone from Tottenham specifically.

As i understand from this thread...most of the rioters came from other areas.

'These' people are people who would probably not come across well at interview.

sing they also chucked billions at failed IT projects and are still chucking money at Afghanistan and Libya.
Whoever said upthread about "understanding helmand but not understanding inner cities" you are so right.

There is a huge sense of entitlement today that engulfs these young people. They are fixated on the ridiculous lifestyles of rappers and the like and will 'take' if they can. Why? There is no sense of self there is always someone to blame as an excuse.Their parents need to be more involved I have seen this 1st hand the chaos of kids left to their own devices and the glorifying of a high £ lifestyle achieved at any cost bar working it seems

That is a fair point teej. But I still stick by what I said. I grew up 10 minutes down the road from Tottenham, I went to school with people like these rioters, their parents did not care about them, a large number were in care. There were 9 year old children there FFS! You're not telling me that a responsible, loving parent would let their 9 year old run the streets like that!

Ah teej you are seeing the light.

Muswell Hill is a couple of miles away. Same council, same money. Different problems, mostly to do with finding parking spaces for the second car or dog mess on the pavements.

reelingin - how would you describe 'these' people that you wouldn't employ?

Prejudice is alive and well, and you are proving that very clearly. These people wouldn't tell you if they'd looted a shop at interview anyway.

How is having better paediatricians in inner city hospitals going to help? We already have some of the best doctors in the world in a free at the point of delivery NHS.

And why is is that Muswell Hill just down the road just happens to have all these 'brilliant' schools that are so great that no-one feels the need to go private, (as was mentioned up thread) but Tottenham doesn't? Aren't they in the same LA? Run by the same people?

If we swapped all the pupils at all those schools en-masse, so that the well-heeled of Muswell Hill travelled to the supposedly crap Tottenham schools and vice-versa, do you think that would put an end to lack of attainment/aspiration in Tottenham?

We do disadvantaged people a serious disservice by always looking to blame state provision or lack of it for all their problems.

There is real deprivation there. Lots of kids in overcrowded housing, poor schools etc. Does not justify rioting though.

re: brilliant schools - a friend was a supply teacher, inner london state school, spanky new building, lots of investment. she is a great believer in the state school system and a good teacher by all accounts.
unfortunately she still needed to press the panic button when the children in her class kicked off.

another teacher friend regularly has to stay behind when non-working parents just can't be arsed to pick up their own children from school.

saying it is down to "dregs" in terms of teachers, social workers, medical professionals not only denigrates people who i would assume are just as hard working as colleagues in other less-deprived areas, it also absolves people who commit crimes from taking responsibility for their own actions.

crossed posts singfor !

a good paediatrician would perhaps pick up when a child has a broken back

the good schools in Muswell Hill have people in them that don't live in overcrowded conditions and parents earn £60 an hour, not £6 an hour

The wishful thinking on this thread is immense. Get real ladies, please.

There is a real sense that these people have no sense that their life could ever be like the life 10 mins up the road. It is like it is not even a remote possibility. that is what needs to change There is no quick fix here

Parents who can't be arsed to pick up their kids from school - oh really.

Has your great teacher friend ever asked these parents? Perhaps they were having to work late for private sector bosses?

sing as said before i live in a "challenged" area of London, I see the problems of my area every time I step out of my front door.
And that is why I still say that ultimately the solution comes from the people, not the cash.