Tottenham rioting

[sfxmum]

has anyone heard? seems to be all over Twitter but not on other media
apparently police cars burning

LDNMummy Duggan didn't die in custody. News reports indicate he was in the process of being apprehended in a taxicab when shots were fired.

His arrest seems to be under the auspices of specialist officers from a dedicated Unit; quite why the family thought hanging around outside a general police station would get them answers I don't know. I am sure they are desperate for explanations but surely there are channels and procedures to follow when trying to get information?

The rioting is inexcusable. The resulting devastation and damage is breathtaking. There can be no justification for such behaviour regardless of how disaffected and disillusioned groups of people are.

teejwood, there's plenty of families and community in Tottenham, but they're just all too busy working for £6.25 an hour to pay shite London rents (1 bedroom flat no less than £1000 a month). Their children suffer.

There's plenty of places around the world where you can have all the community and family goodness, combined with disease and lack of sanitation. If you think that's such a great way to live why don't you try it?

*just wish people would think about the words they use because they hurt.
*

But why? I didn't personally insult you did I? Just gave my opinion on an area. People slag off my home town all the time, I don't really care to be honest. It doesn't represent who I am, it's just a place I happened to grow up in.

I agree that there are parts of Tottenham that are truly horrible. But why is it a shithole?

Why do I think it's a shithole? It's dirty, I never felt safe walking down the road there at anytime of the day by myself, the crime levels are ridiculously high. That kind of thing. And yeah, you could say that about any 'urban' area of Outer London. That's why I moved.
It's not my fault the council hasn't invested there. Maybe if it did, I might have changed my opinion. But it hasn't, so I won't.

EdithWeston

I didn't know his name until i saw it on here.

Can I ask - why were they protesting this thug got shot?

I don't get it. He was allowed to shoot at police but they weren't to retaliate? And if he had shot an innocent person there would have been accusations against the police on that point.

All of a sudden the thug's family are to be pandered to and no doubt be awarded with a massive payout. For the loss of a thug.

There are no excuses, in this country we have no idea of what being deprived is. We need to stop finding reasons why & to expect people to take responsibility for their actions.

singfor my posts have explicity expressed sympathy for the people in tottenham and wood green. it could well be my area of London next so believe me i'm not sitting in a nice area feeling smug.
my posts have also made the point that individuals and communities can effect change that no amount of money can.
imho taking my posts as anything other than that is disingenuous.

Oh and I do express sympathy for the innocent, law abiding people of Tottenham and Wood Green. They deserve nothing of this whatsoever.

Bullet

Tottenham's loss.

And mine and my children's infinite gain, BBL1. And I lived in Wood Green, not Tottenham.

Now I can understand why you moved.

Hahaha I would take Wood Green any day over Tottenham. At least it had a wicked high street!

two we don't yet know if he was a "thug"; according to his family he had been involved in some "stuff" whatever that means. it could mean petty crime but not violence - is that a "thug"? and allegedly he was carrying a gun and fired it at a police officer but until the facts become clear we can't say if that WAS the case.

whatever, a family is mourning the loss of their son/brother/father and "thug's family" is unfair. how do you know the parents did not try and steer him in the right direction through life? and today, i'm sure they would rather his life had turned out differently.

Not to make light of the situation. But. I just saw (on sky news) a young lad wearing a Burberry print cap and carrying what looked Like a staffy. Really.

I am waiting to hear what exactly happened. I am not inclined to believe every word that comes from the police given their history of blackening people's names when trying to hide their actions. Having said that, if this man was a criminal, he put himself in harms way.

I don't know how the police is expected to offer support to the family. It sounds as if they should have spoken to the family when they came to the police station (basic PR to take the heat out of the situation). There may be another, more neutral, agency that can help. I feel sorry that the children had a father that was 'known' to the police. It is/was up to him to set them a good example, not the police. Now it is up to the family to comfort them.

I can't see how burning down your own neighbourhood is going to help anything. What will happen if the shop keepers leave and there is nowhere to shop? Do you think that the large chains will open shops so they can be robbed during social unrest? The area will go further downhill if no one wants to go there.

teejwood the thing you seem to forget is that there is community and family in Tottenham, they are just exhausted by the poor housing, density of population, emotional stress from being constantly glared at or refused jobs because of their background.

They all want the best for their families and their children and the don't want to leave, why should they want to?

There is not enough money in Tottenham to support the extra needs of the people there, and the needs of the transient population who are shipped out of areas like Westminster where they often arrive. Money does make a difference. The BEST charities in Tottenham are being used by the council as a money-saving scheme for them, and are funded by the great and the good, not by the government and not by the council. They make a huge difference. You cannot compare Muswell Hill and Tottenham in terms of quality of life, yet they receive the same services and funding. What happened last night was to be expected. Mark Duggan, like many of the rioters, simply, have little left to lose.

grim sometimes we need a bit of humour

Not to make light of the situation. But. I just saw (on sky news) a young lad wearing a Burberry print cap and carrying what looked Like a staffy. Really.

Classic

This is so sad and scary for all the people living there and affected by it. But it is obvious looking at the young men(mainly) on the news footage that the education system and social services have failed in making young black men feel there is another way. Why do they feel compelled to loot,arson and demonstrate like this instead of being horrified and disgusted and frankly scared like the rest of us. It is such a complex and emotive issue and I am very wary of saying the wrong thing here in case I give the wrong impression but it feels like something huge would need to shift in order for things to change Otherwise we only need to look to the US to see where this all leads

For those who don't understand why they were protesting, it was very little to do with Mark Duggan, it had everything to do with the pressure on people and services in these areas. Mark Duggan was just the trigger that started the riot that was waiting to happen.

They all want the best for their families and their children and the don't want to leave, why should they want to?

Of course not all of them do. I'm pretty sure there are feckless parents and wasters in Tottenham too you know.

They all want the best for their families?

Oh, please. I'm sure most do.
But anyone who chooses to carry a gun or a knife does not.

sing not being obtuse but i did not say there WASN'T community in tottenham - only that the change that is needed can only come from them.

nor did i say they should leave the area or that they don't want the best for their families - wtf did that come from?

only that the change that is needed can only come from them.

Exactly. You can chuck all the money at people you want, if they don't give a damn, then nothing will change.

OK...did anyone else see the young girl twitching and smiling and waving and blowing kisses at the cameras earlier?

Desperately trying to get on camera.

And all this trouble and a man has been killed?

Why do people persist in saying that the system has let all these rioters down?
We have education today that my parents ( who left school at 14) could only dream of. We have a Welfare State the envy of the world and poverty is not having an annual holiday.

These rioters/thugs/whatever are undisciplined , feckless and violent. Most of them are not simply unemployed, they're unemployable.