Tottenham rioting

[sfxmum]

has anyone heard? seems to be all over Twitter but not on other media
apparently police cars burning

I have sympathy for these children, Sympathy that he is dead, and also sympathy that they didn't have a law abiding father to set a good example to them.

I agree with cook and bullet, unsurprisingly.

I feel more sorry that the kids had a father like that in the first place, if I'm honest.

SardineQueen he wasn't thinking of his children when he popped off a round at the police so why should I think about his kids no doubt we are already paying for their mums benefits and he didn't have any type of job

I see you've given this issue a lot of thought LD.

I'm off too.

At the very least the Kids should have decent parents who love them and put them first. This guy did not put his kids first.

why it started?

If only we could hide scumbags as easily as SQ hides this thread!

I agree with Cook and Bullet and Lucrezia and Fellatio and all the other non bleeding hearts.

Makes a pleasant change to get some non woolly thinking on here.

I think if my son had been shot by the Police i would not be looking to them for support or sympathy or councelling.

But that does not mean i would want riots as a result.

And i would want very regular updates on the progress of any inquiry into the circumstances of his death.

But where does the family support come from apart from themselves in these circumstances?

Social services?

I don't know.

Doesn't it just, Alouise? I was so sure that this thread would have been over-run with the MN liberal mafia, it's rather refreshing actually.

I don't want justice for this man, I want justice where the police may have not upheld the law, but considered themselves so far above it, that they could take someone's life when it was not necessary (they had him in custody when he was shot).

When do the police turn from guardians of justice to thugs themselves?

Its funny how people assume that the family must be somehow so base that they do not deserve support in all this. How many parents out there have children who turn to drugs and other criminal activity and even come on here seeking support? It could happen to any family that a family member could turn to crime.

I am not defending a man who carried a gun, rather, I am fearful of a society in which police are no more than criminals themselves, just with the power to dictate what kind of criminal is acceptable and what kind is not.

We do not practice capital punishment in this country and David C recently stated it was the mark of an uncivilised nation, I think that says a lot about those who are happy to accept this man was shot dead without fair trial because of his background.

Many innocent people die in police custody, lets not forget that.

This man's children deserve to know what happened, even if that is with the sharp truth that their father was a criminal. If the police carried out the murder of a man, they should be held equally as accountable as any other member of the public.

Could one of you vigilante types point me to the reputable news source that says the man was definitely carrying a loaded gun and definitely shot at the police?

Because what I'm reading is 'shots were exchanged', 'a weapon was recovered', that bullet in the police radio could have come from one of the other policemen for all we know. Not all the witnesses say the man shot first. Even the police statements don't say that they returned fire or were shot at first. WE DON'T KNOW what happened yet. So have some decency for god's sakes.

And everyone saying oh Menezes was different, he was innocent -- well in the first days after that shooting the police portrayed him as doing all kinds of suspicious things and so no wonder they shot him. It only emerged much later that people lied about this.

SQ....i feel dreadfully sorry for anyone's DC who have lost their Father.

We still don't know the circumstances of his death so really it's inappropriate to comment on his criminality or otherwise.

Do we know for sure yet whether he had a gun or was it someone else?

I thought he was a passenger in a taxi.

However,if he did shoot at a policeman then he can have only expected to get shot back.

And yes,his poor DC....i hope someone is caring for them.

And very good points dreaming

dreamingbohemian so shots were exchanged well the whom was it with the cab driver of course it was him unless their was a marksmen on the roof exchanged means you then me

And where would the non-police issue handgun have come from?

The Daily Mail has the most recent (1 hour ago) update on Mr Duggan, but I wouldn't dream of linking the DM on here. Despite being one of the most widely read online news sources in the English speaking world, it is always discredited instantly on here.

LDNmummy...
I agree with you on many points about the police.

I find their attitude and presence very threatening even when they are walking through the local shopping precinct.

DS2 was told to get off his bike while cycling through a local park that had no such (cycling) restrictions ,and this on a Sunday morning.

They park where they want, to go and get personal shopping and speak to the public in a superior and arrogant way.

There seem to be such big problems all round.

They are still public servants.

That doesn't mean we treat them badly but it does mean that they treat us with respect also.

Hahaha of course Alouise, don't you dare link to that, everyone on here knows the DM just make things up as they go along

SQ yes of course his children are people. Of course we need to feel sympathy for them. Yes, they are victims. But (daring to make assumptions about the outcome ot the enquiry for a moment) they are NOT victims of a crime committed by the police. They are the victims of a crime committed by their own father. They are the victims of the lifestyle choices of the person who was supposed to protect them and nurture them and teach them right from wrong.

Once again, it is not the police's job to bend over backwards to make sure his family can 'feel ok' about this. Assuming (again) that they were justified in shooting him, the family will have to seek their support elsewhere, I am afraid. Clearly there will be plenty of people lining up to offer it to them.

We tread a very dangerous line when we start feeling that the police are automatically responsible for the emotional turmoil suffered by criminals' families, rather than the criminals themselves.

Dreamingbohemian: BBC is reporting handgun at scene, plus eyewitness accounts of more shits than this that killed the deceased.

Multiple outlets are now reporting a shot that hit a police radio. Please remember that in UK police officers wear their radios on their chests.

It's all over twitter that it's spread down my way. I don't know if it's true or the shops are being shut just in case. Unusual amount of sirens heading over.

100% agree with Fellatio's last post. If their father had chosen not to carry a gun, I'd put a safe bet on saying that he'd still be around. Just saying.