Five-a-day parenting 'checklist'? What do you think?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello. We've just heard about this proposal to give all parents a five-a-day checklist, detailing how they should bring up their children.

Apparently, it's an idea that's winning the support of many politicians.

Would it win your support?

I personal am on a low budget ( we have been on a lot more and benefits in the past, things change). I don't thing it has as much to do with money as it does with the way all know to parent.

I don't enjoy reading to my son as much as I should as i'm dyslexic and cant read simple books as well as I can text books.
So we read together as we cook together which teachs, reading, counting as well as being a good life skill. I have also written out on A4 sheets how in pictures and with one word prompts such as 'stir' for him to make a cake on his own. Which promotes independence, pride and helps his memory and other skills. In order to cook we must shop so he has a list too and does the counting.

I am really not sure this '5 a day' thing will help very much. It may give some people some help it may also make people like me who don't do thing but the governments '5 a day' plan even more left out.

I have no idea how but we really need to get parents talking to each other (face to face) to find out how each other are getting on with being parents, lend a supporting hand and share the skills we all have.

I would absolutely hate it, as I feel inadequate enough as a parent without a reminder on the bus telling me to talk to my child. What I need instead is someone to tell me, what you are doing is good.

I have agreed with you spotty that there needs to be more parenting advice not less, which is what the report is saying.

I have arranged parenting help for parents who sound quite similar to you through home-start for pre preschoolers and at a school level through CAMHS which is easier with a GP referral. I have also worked in schools which have offered parenting support.

Personally I have also used parentline.

Report may well be very good but sadly I have no faith in politicians to spot what is actually wrong and what needs to be done about it. Cameron and his ilk mutter about HVs as if they are the answer to everything. Not noticing, or caring, that HVs are extremely variable in quality and do NOT have to do any continuing professional development at all. (Unless something has changed radically in the last couple of years.) So you get rogue HVs who are too darn lazy to every pick up a book and check whether the rubbish they are spouting has any basis in reality or peer-reviewed evidence. (You also get very good ones, of course, but there should be some basic quality standards to weed out the 'he's a big baby, you'll need to top up with formula' idiots.)

edam you're right - was speaking to a former hv the other day who is being courted in a 'return to practice' initiative and I said that she must have a lot of catching up to do. Apparently not, because there is no requirement for CPD.

CrosswordAddict, yes, I have come to that conclusion too. I think that was part of the problem, that neither her brother nor her sister challenged me to anything like the same extent so I was left thinking, 'what the hell do I try now?' As I say, now that she has grown into her brain a little, things are slightly easier.

Twinkly, I was a primary teacher (now working as a TA) so I had spoken to our contact at CAMHS who was supportive but could offer nothing unless I got a referral from either the GP or HV neither of whom saw an issue because she was bright and not in the least bit upset/insecure/disturbed etc.

Oh and it was the HomeStart course stuff that the HV brought to the house with her which was full of all the obvious stuff and nothing much above and beyond what is being suggested here. What angered and upset me was that they were the professionals. How come they didn't know more than me? More than I could read and access myself? I am an early years practitioner with an MA in early intervension and developmental delay but I'm not a health professional or an expert in parenting and I needed expect support. CAMHS would probably/hopefully been better but we didn't get that far.

Hmm thing that annoys me perspnally is the getting on the floor one. I can't due to back issues. In fact physical play is difficult for me. I am not a lone parent but if I were I would feel the kids were being disadvantaged (maybe they are). Also are there not other things that some experts argue are even more important.

Affection?
Singing or listening to music?
Parents look after their own mental and physical health

etc...

Homestart schemes vary according to the staff they have and the needs of the community. The homestart I was involved with had groups for children on the autistic spectrum for example but that was because we access to people with a certain expertise. To be fair if you have an early years degree and an MA in early years intervention you do know a fair bit already.

It is very hard to get anywhere with CAMHS, I know that from working with families myself. The problem with relying on a GP referral is that it does rely on the knowledge of your GP and they are after all general practioners.

"I don't enjoy reading to my son as much as I should as i'm dyslexic and cant read simple books as well as I can textbooks."

byanymeans don't forget that "reading to" is not something that you do to a child; it is something you do with them. You may struggle to read the text but you can always talk about other aspects of the book - the illustrations, adopt silly voices or accents, guess what hapens next, discuss what the characters are feeling etc etc. Involving your child in the process helps their imagination grow.
Your home-made cookbook sounds great!

The Homestart/HV combo did make me feel as if I had nothing to complain about because I didn't have either an agressively behaved child or one who was developmentally delayed. HV must have told me 100times how she saw lots of parents who were just desperate for their children to speak or interact. With the implication that I was lucky. But she was wild and a real danger to herself, banging her head in frustration and anger at 12mths because she couldn't quite do an 18 piece jigsaw etc.

Anyway, the thread isn't about me or Lizzie. My point was that instead of trying to preach to all parents these 5 bollocks magic rules, they need more widespread, detailed approaches and access to services.

I think there are parents who will do most of it anyway and make an effort to do their best, and there are others who can't be bothered or don't see the value in it - they won't change just because you give them a checklist.

A bit like the Sure Start centres around here, they are great, I loved all the free activities, but I don't think those they were built for came.

"If you claim to be a single mother then there ought to be compulsory educational courses in life skills if you need them or a couple of A Levels if you don't but being sat on your arse is simply not an option."

Oh, ok, Heathersmall, I've claimed to be a single mother for a few years now (though not all of the time on benefits)- I'm happy for you to send me to take more A-levels to add to the 5 I already have, and the MSc.

WibblyBibble - I have a post-grad qualification too. And I'm a single mother on benefits. Perhaps we can get another free degree if HeatherSmall's paying?

Am I missing something here...

This is a charitable organisation/thinktank who've written a report about social mobility and the impact of the early years on that.

This is not a Government initiative although various Minister's have commented on it favourably.

Why has no-one on this thread actually posted what the possible 5 a day items are?!

1. Read to your child for 15 minutes

2. Play with your child on the floor for 10 minutes

3. Talk with your child for 20 minutes with the television off

4. Adopt positive attitudes towards your child and praise them frequently

5. Give your child a nutritious diet to aid development

The report says:

It is recommended here that a campaign should be fully designed ? with expert input both from child development and marketing and communications experts ? that identifies the 5 most beneficial things that could be done by parents on a daily basis to aid their child?s development in the earliest years.

^The following proposal ? placing the evidence of the science of early brain and skill development at its core and based on discussions with child development academics and individuals from child and family welfare organisations ? is designed to give a tentative example of how such a campaign might look, both as an effort fully to illustrate the concept and
potentially stimulate further debate.^

So let's debate!

Personally I don't think that there would be many MNers who are not already doing most of these things every day - or have their DC in childcare which covers these areas.

Surely people are aware of the existence of families where these things do not happen - either through direct experience or second hand from friends working in these areas. This would give a concrete list of things to encourage parents to do. These activities could be modelled at Sure Start etc and most of all I think that the message should be that if you do these things and give your DC this attention they are likely to be easier to parent!

Christine - I once had to give an award to a group of HVs because they had had the brilliant and ground-breaking idea of getting together over lunch once every couple of months to discuss the latest guidelines and journal articles. Good for them but shocking that this was novel and so extraordinary it merited a national award!

I think they should make all the timings 15 minutes to make it more memorable.

Just wondering how anyone will know who is doing the things on the checklist anyway? There is nothing at all to stop people taking the extra money and then doing no more than getting a few books in case the HV visits.

I think from the report that the financial incentives are only meant for those in the most need and would be in return for attending sessions and not for meeting these five deadlines. Other schemes in other countries have financial rewards for school attendance or attending parenting sessions.

I am coming more and more to the conclusion that school needs to incorporate a "life skills" subject, to be taught from infant school up. :(

It's all very well to feel patronised or bullied by the idea but the fact remains that some parents ARE ignorant of the importance of these things - perhaps not many, but definitely some. And not necessarily all in the low-paid sector either! For those who know this stuff, how is it going to hurt you to be given the information again? just file it in the "I knew this anyway" area. For those who know some of it but not all, it might prove useful - and for those who haven't a clue, it might help their children have a better time! There will of course still be a class of people who just decide that "the fucking Govt can just keep its nose out of how I raise my child" and carry on doing exactly what they please - but they can't blame it on ignorance when it all goes wrong.

I read the article and thought "And? Whats so new about this? Which parent doesn't know that their child will benefit from these five things?

And why is it always assumed that "poorer parents" are bad parents that need to be taught?

Totally agree with Thumbwitch. There are plenty of better-off families who don't, for example, give their children a regular bedtime. I have had generally very sensible colleagues whose toddler/reception age children have the same bedtimes as their parents "because we don't see each other during the day" - then the parents are mystified when the children's teachers are concerned about the children falling asleep at school.
I think there are some parents who think parenting = having a child, not = bringing up a person.
If that makes sense

It is hard for most of us to understand just how bad some parenting is. A very small minority but it is there. Some people genuinely don't know what to do and it continues because if your parents never read to you, you may not understand it us important etc. I have a distant relative who was asked by a speech therapist to spend 10 mins a day (5 in the morning, 5 in the afternoon) just chatting to her child. She was outraged and saud this was impossible as she also had a baby. She has absolutely no idea and as much as family try to support her, she is incredibly lazy about her parenting. She needs these 5 steps but the cast majority of us don't.

Agree with Thumbwitch and Rooble. Poor parenting has nothing to do with income levels and nothing to do with being a lone parent. I honestly don't understand all the comments on here about this advice being 'patronising'. If you're doing these things already, then give yourself pat on the back and be reassured that you're giving your child's social, communication and physical development a terrific start!
But there are many parents who DO NEED THIS ADVICE. I agree with kitesurfgirl that many parents do not ever share a book with their child, and never chat with them during daily routines. I'm an SLT and I once advised a dad to spend 10 mins a day playing with his son with the TV off. The next week, I asked how it went - dad said that when he put the TV off, his son went to get his coat, as he thought it meant they were going out! So the TV was on every second of the day that this family were at home. This advice is necessary for many parents.

I also take great exception to the idea that there is lots of help out there if you ask for it. I have had some concerns about my son, and have simply got no where in terms of asking for help. There is no point in doing this if there isn't support available!

I have not said there is lots of help but pointed to what help there is available through schools , and agreed that this may be too late. One of the things that the paper calls for - which I agree with is that there should be more parental education.