Five-a-day parenting 'checklist'? What do you think?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello. We've just heard about this proposal to give all parents a five-a-day checklist, detailing how they should bring up their children.

Apparently, it's an idea that's winning the support of many politicians.

Would it win your support?

I think the idea that there is lots of help available is being bandied about by those who have never had to try and access it!

As the mother of a child with sn, let me assure you that - until we paid privately - my son got no help at all from paeds, HV's and schools.....the very people paid to help him by the state.

Go on the SN board and tell them there is plenty of help available!!!!

twinkly Really? Lots of help available through schools??? Is there? In 3 years I havent found any

The cuts to spending are affecting what ineffective and patchy help there is

I find it infuriating and so patronising that the finger is always pointed towards "poorer" families. I work in a private school and see a lot of very poor parenting skills. having loads of money and being able to buy the latest gadget does not make you a better parent and it does not mean that parents communicate more with their children!

I actually think the recommendations are sound and I do think that the things suggested do not happen in all families. It is easy to leave the telly or radio on in the background to keep the kids entertained. It is easy to let them play on the floor while you go on the computer / read a magazine. These things are not terrible parenting just less than ideal. Sometimes it helps to point this out to people.

Social mobility is such an important issue and the early years have such an impact on this that I really do think this is a great idea in principle.

I think if they use the 5 a day slogan that would a shame as will dilute the healthy eating message but I would support a differently branded campaign.

I also agree that the biggest problem with an initiative like this is getting to the message to the parents who need it most. By definition they are the least interested parents so the least willing to look honestly at their behaviour.

Becaroo I can only talk about the schools I have worked in since being in a position that involved working with parents on pastoral issues and being a governor at three different primary schools. Every single one has offered parenting classes of some nature. Some of these were targeted at certain families and others were available for all. I have also worked for homestart and surestart and we have organised parenting classes both through family centres and primary schools. This is in two different areas. Maybe thus is highly unusual but from working with colleagues in other schools I did not get that impression.

I have never said there was lots and lots of help available but there is help our there. Every single parent who has approached me for help I have been able to put them in contact with someone . I am not saying that this solves all the problems and I m not saying that more help isn't needed - that is one of the things from the report that I agree with.

I agree about the cuts by the way. I have written countless letters and pounded the streets again and again waving my banner regarding the cuts.

It is amazing that in these supposed times of austerity this Government is proposing to throw even more of our cash at projects like this. It is as if they are Marie Antoinette in cloud cuckoo land.

There is no problem in telling parents what might be a good way to bring up chidlren but we must never move to a police state where one right way is given.

I love living in a country where I could educate my children at home, send them to a selective or single sex or religious school or Summer Hill or whatever. There is no one right way and we need to ensure ideologies are not trumpeted as the one true path and we must avoid removing children from a parent just because they don't happen to deal with those children in the way that is the current fad of social workers. We need to respect there is a broad range of ways in which parents can bring up children and above all try not to interfere.

A Hands Off Campaigan ought to go better with this supposed Conservative Government. Let children choose. Let them choose dungarees or pink. Let them choose times tables at 3 or 8. Let us give families freedom from rules and strictures. Let us return to the time when families themselves had responsibility to determine things. We have gone far too far towards a nanny state.

But it is patronising! Why can't the government come out and say that there is a significant minority of parents who haven't got a clue and we need to address the welfare of these kids? Why can't they come out and say that? If they're so worried about it, they need to grow some balls and come out and say it rather than introduce or in this case, endorse, a blanket information scheme that only makes the majority feel that their money is being wasted (ie taken from SS and used for this).

What was pissing me off yesterday is that there simply isn't the help for parents of kids like my exceptionally gifted but exceptionally difficult DD1 or for parents of children with complex SN. But there seems to be plenty of 'classes' to tell you you need a healthy diet, positive consistent discipline and a good bedtime routine. Is it any wonder some parents could scream at the way resources are directed?

I am not saying that children like yours don't need support, as I said I have a bright dd myself who has always been difficult. But the current proposal is about social mobility.

I guess I have been lucky that I was poor enough, homeless, escaping domestic abuse and then played my trump card of having a break down so I got help and once that first bit of help was there it opened doors later. I am sorry that you feel the need to scream because women like myself have needed support for a short while. It may make you less angry to know that I only needed that support for a short while and I then funded the help myself and intend to pay back every penny because I am now a higher rate tax payer and have not claimed my child benefit for some time to pay back into the pot. Is such social mobility not worth investing in? A hands off campaign would have been cheaper in the short term but it would have left my daughter and I to rot. While getting that help there were only a very few occasions when I felt patronised, and to be honest those brief moments were worth the glimpses of frustration.

I feel confident spotty that if your dd was in my school I would arrange help, with the proviso that you have told us very little. I am sorry that is not available elsewhere. I think if the government acted on this report there would be more help available, being a Tory government I doubt they will provide the help.

OMG I am seething.

The five steps are:
Read to your child for 15 minutes

Play with your child on the floor for 10 minutes

Talk with your child for 20 minutes with the television off

Adopt positive attitudes towards your child and praise them frequently

Give your child a nutritious diet

Author Chris Paterson says

"It is only by taking steps which actively encourage awareness and participation among parents from lower-income backgrounds that engagement with parenting and the home environment can move beyond being a general tool for child development and become a genuine weapon against disadvantage."

Ok as a single mother with my first child living off tax credits (I did work) I would have been classed as low income.

Does that mean I cant read to my child. (He is actually top of his class for reading, despite being one of the youngest.)

As a baby and toddler he was always playing, whether with me or family or at nursery.

Of course I talk to my child, (he was talking in little sentances by 18 months)

I praise him a lot for every little thing

I try my hardest to get him to eat healthy food but like any child he has his likes and dislikes. He is tall and slim and does a lot of exercise, so no worries about childhood obesity.

I cannot believe they are targeting low income families and saying they must be sh*t cos they have no money. How dare they!!!

There are plenty of middle class people who dump their children at nursery from 7 til 6 five days a week. Then straight home to bed with lil one. Yes they have their physical needs met but no time with parents!

I know we all have to work, but the couple I am thinking of hardly ever saw their child as he worked weekends too! Their child was brought up by nursery! I think this is far worse than having lil money.

I think there are people of all walks of life that for one reason or another do not spend quality time with their children.

I think the five a day is common sense and is a good thing, although I do agree the name should be changed.

However the author needs to take a look around the real world

GRRRRRR rant over

This report is merely suggestions at how to improve social mobility.

I really really think that more people should read at least the executive summary before dismissing it.

There is a quote from James Heckman, Nobel Prize winning economist:

?The true measure of child affluence and poverty is the quality of parenting. A lone mother living in financial poverty can create a stimulating environment for her child?

However there is strong strong statistical evidence that children from lower income famillies on average perform much lower on many measures of achievement.

Surely this is not a surprise to anyone!

Please those reading this who are on lower incomes/benefits etc - don't feel attacked! I am sure that you are creating a stimulating environment.

What is wrong is when HCPs/teachers make assumptions based on where people live/what they look like/names/occupations etc.

Therefore a universal campaign seems sensible so that eg a HV starts from a postion of no assumptions and says "what sort of things do you like to do with your DC" and then depending on the answer can adapt advice:

very different advice to a parent who says "well we read to DC every day/play on the floor/excercise/talk over dinner" to one who looks a bit blank /says "watch TV"/says "I'm finding it a struggle to work out what to do".

Something positive in the report it it talks about "quality of time spent" and not "quantity" - this is good news for WAHMs!

What do other people think should be done to improve social mobility?

If this is not a good way then what is?

This social mobility agenda is influenced by the Liberal Democrat portion of the Coalition - and very different to if it was just the Conservatives.

For a right wing view - see Xenia's post !

EmJayg the report acknowledges that single parents can and often do a fabulous job of raising children. It also acknowledges that good parenting is not about income. However children from the poorest families - and that is likely to be a family with one income - are statistically likely to be caught in the deprivation trap.

Forkful said it better. I am getting back to my studies.

EmJayg I am afraid that statistically DC from lower incomes on average do worse.

This does not mean that your DC will. From what you have written I am sure they will not. But everyone needs to be aware of the statistics!

DC in nursery - ARE - getting read to/played with/good diet/talked to. Let's not make this SAHM v WAHM.

Let's not make it low income v higher income.

Let's make it how can we as a society improve social mobility.

Wouldn't it be great to see those gaps narrowed?

They seem fairly sensible suggestions - but I'd like to think that most parents already do those things. It seems obvious to me that you read a bedtime story, talk to your child, play with them etc, so it's surely a bit pointless targeting this at absolutely everyone rather than the few that are completely clueless or have very chaotic lives.

And I doubt that those parents who aren't willing or able to do such simple things, would suddenly start doing them just because they got a little card telling them so...

To twinkypearls and forkful

I am very lucky, I now have a lovely partner (of two years) and am pregnant with my second child. I know statisticallly children from lower income and single parent families are not expected to achieve as much. I have been fighting against that for six years now.

I certainly have nothing against working mums, I am a working mum myself although only part time. My first child did attend nursery whilst I worked. I dont think second child will as I cannot afford it.

I just got really mad at some of the comments, that were made and yes I felt attacked. Especially by stupid comments from HeatherSmall saying we should be given compulsory classes inc A levels. If someone wants to pay for me to sit A levels bring it on lol.

In order to improve social mobility I would like to see tuition fees scrapped, or at least income based. I really really want to go back to college and I am seriously considering it, however the course I would like to do is apx £800 for the year. Then obviously it goes up as I would be going to uni.

Sorry kinda another issue.

This is getting dull, I was the horse , I was led to water and j drank . I have seen lots of other horses.

The report does not say that this alone will cure all parenting ills.

Forkful, I haven't at all suggested that the issue lies squarely with those families on low income or single parents but that still doesn't mean that it applies to anything more than a minority of parents. So my point was, why don't the government come out and say it straight that some parenting is not up to scratch and as a society we need to address this? Why all the floweryness of 'here are a few tips.' and 'here is a financial incentive.' Why not, 'feeding your child junk and never interacting with them is unacceptable.' Therefore we now need to dictate to you what you should be doing. It's just so weak to gently give a few nudges. These campaigns cost money. If they're going to spend the money why can't they target it specifically where it's needed instead of coming out with or backing up (in this case) some gentle tips.

Twinkly, my DD1 is only 5.5 and I'm quite sure neither her nor us will need support by the time she gets to secondary school. Her behavioural difficulties were because at 3yrs she had the intellectual capability of a 7 or 8yr old but the body of a toddler. My question, that still nobody has bothered answering, is why wasn't there parenting classes for that? Why wasn't there help and support for that? Why couldn't either my HV or Surestart/Homestart tell me something that wasn't obvious such as diet, exercise, routine etc. I know I am bitter about it but I expect to go to a professional and them to impart their professional expertise to me. Not, for them to only offer ridiculously obvious things that the vast majority of parents know anyway.

I've always said in many ways the best thing a mother can do for her child is earn a huge amount of money and pay school fees. I might be tongue in cheek but this and most reports prove that parental income is one of the best indicators of child outcomes. So if we got more women (usually fat idle women) off their bottoms and into good careers children might do better and this report seems to be saying the same as regards social mobility.

The basic issues of listening to children, reading etc are things most good parents do and there is no harm in their being pointed out. However I would hate this nation to move to a situation where the state tells us how to live our lives. I want to maintain our broad freedoms so very much eroded under Labour and indeed restore them to bring up our children in the way we decide (as long as the children are not physically abused) without state interference.

I don't earna huge amount of money - in the region of 40K, I think it would be in my dd's interest for me to work less tbh. It has certainly been in her interest for dp to work less even though it means we don't earn enough to pay school fees.

Xenia, do you actually live on the same planet as the rest of us?

I don't think she has ever even pretended to inhabit the same planet as us mere mortals.

I agree with Xenia that "the basic issues of listening to children, reading etc are things most good parents do and there is no harm in their being pointed out". I don't know why people are being so defensive about it. Do you take umbrage when the dentist reminds you to brush twice a day? Do you resent being taught to 'stop, look, listen' when crossing the road? What is wrong with being reminded about best practise?

The report-writer says that part of the logic of the scheme is to introduce "a significant cultural shift ...(akin to those involving seat belt wearing and drink driving) towards recognising that parenting has a societal aspect and importance and is something about which it is socially acceptable for people to seek advice, learn and improve". They simply want to bring about a mindset that is it the norm to have one-to-one attention between parent and child, where there is talk and play. Although many already do this it is obvious that there are also a significant number of parents who do not, a sufficient number to cause concern.

I want an interesting job, as long as it earns enough it is fine and if I had the money I wouldn't pay school fees.