T.M.I. =Sex Education for under year 5 and 6 in Primary Schools

[Poeteats4gals]

Hi fellow passionate Mums!!!

Sex Education is not mandatory ...yet. Perhaps September. Parents have many legal rights in this area. They have a legal right to ask for The Sex Education Policy for the school and to scrutinise it and to ask to see DVD's and they have the right to withdraw their children to go swimming as I did today.

If your child is disturbed in any way by the Sex Ed. materials used in the school you can take your child for counselling and have same recorded by your G.P. and seek legal advice. Groups of parents can go to a solicitor especially if you were not informed. The law after all is there ,supposedly , to protect the innocent...our children whom we entrust to be educated.

Schools telling little kids about Sex Ed.is a bit like schools telling them about the tooth fairy or Santa without telling parents. It deskills us as parents and gives kids too much information , too young...what do you think?

The kids chat about things they don't need to know, simply because they are being taught. It's the Garden Of Eden ....all over again ...knowledge!

How about reading , writing , Maths and leaving Sex Ed to us?

WE so know the stage our kids are at!
Anyway ..has Sex Ed. worked to bring down STD's or teenage pregnancy rates?

Let's have some teaching on self esteem
and gift and talent awareness instead that g further in schools that an e mail and a course at a weekend when its down family time.

We know our kids best in this oversexualised culture and this is best to come from parents as and when it comes up..What do you think?

Crapola, thanks for that. You really know how to make someone feel good don't you?

Once again, I am repeating what I have already said. There is nothing wrong with touching your own body, however I reserve the right as their parent to tell them certain things when I feel it is appropriate to do so. You may not agree with my parenting style and I may not agree with some of yours, but you have the right to parent your children the way you see fit and I would never criticise that fundamental right.

Every child is different. Yours are different to mine. So don't presume to tell me what all children do because they don't.

It's a shoddy thing to tell someone that they are a bad parent, which is what you implied. A shame that convos like this end up in the one who holds opposing views being personally insulted.

It's also the sign that you have lost sight of your argument.

For accuracy's sake Rhubarb - the government are NOT trying to remove parent's right of withdrawal from Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education, under which Sex and Relationship Education falls.

Legislation passed under the previous government, which will likely come info effect following the current PSHE review, will make PSHE a compulsary part of the curriculum. BUT the right of withdrawal for parents will be retained. Hope that helps.

I stand by my comment, arrogant parents who believe they have 'different' children and that they know best are more likely to have children that would benefit from Sex Ed at school. How do you know that your child isn't touching, and enjioying, themselves but feels abnormal for doing so?

Surely a general and very small comment not directed at anyone is preferable to their parents talking about masturbation.

Crapola you bring a very valid point in there.

Keeping Sex Ed off the curriculum, and 'behind closed' doors is counter-productive IMO.

If a parent removes their child from general PSHE in school it's making it MORE taboo, giving the message loud and clear that kids must not talk about it in general, surely?

charitygirl thank you.
Crapola every child is different and I'm certainly not going to discuss mine with you. You are entitled to your opinion but be aware that if you direct comments to me about my children I will ask for them to be removed. As a mother I'm sure you can understand how insulting it is for someone else to patronise your skills as a mother.

I'm sure you make many many parenting choices that I would disagree with, but I would not say you were arrogant for making those choices.

IroningBoard - I cannot say what other parents do, that is their choice which was my original point. I can tell you that I talk about sex freely with mine rather than sitting them down and making any kind of a deal about it. The school have taken both of mine out and nobody batted an eyelid, in fact the kids didn't even mention it to me as kids are always taken out of class for one thing and another. It hardly registered with them.

Rhubarb, if I was a teacher and a parent asked for it's child to be removed from sex ed I would think 'arsehole'. Can't imagine what anyone could possibly think would be the harm in a child knowing that touching their own body may feel nice, the sort of person who finds that idea inappropriate is pretty darn perverse. Why would anyone want a child to know it's okay that it feels nice? Nothing to be embargoes or ashamed of.

Again Crapola you are just choosing to be utterly offensive. Read my posts and you will see why I am against sex ed. If you are unable to see my viewpoint for whatever reason, then I merely ask that you respect the fact that it is my choice as a parent.

If you can't respect my choices as a parent then perhaps you are the one who is an arsehole?

Thanks for the discussion.

I'm allowed my opinion and to express it anyway I see fit.

I find your opinion pretty darn repulsive, Rhubarb. When do parents sit down and talk about masturbation? What age? Because I think a casual notion of 'it's okay and normal' at seven is much better than sit down and have a wank son, at thirteen.

I think SEx Ed has nothing to do with whether or not children have sex and I think it should be compulsory. Especially as most withdrawn from lessons are likely to be girls within a particualr religion,.

Erm. whats wrong with the term "wanking" for masturbation??

Far better than the term "auto-eroticism" that one of my teachers insisted on using and which, of course, none of us had the faintest idea what she was on about!!!

What would you prefer?

Look, your son (and mine) will come across ALL sorts of terms to denote sex/mastrurbation/erotica in the playground. Sorry. but they will.

Surely its better they know a few of the terms being bandied about so they dont then say loudly at a church picnic
"mummy, whats wanking????"

Just dont see the big deal OP.

As a young girl from a catholic household I got NO info from my parents about ANYTHING. Therefore, when I started my period (aged 10) I thought I had some awful disease of the bottom and didnt tell my mum at first. The Samaritans was founded by Chad Varah when he heard of a young girl who killed herself when her period started she was so ashamed

Where do we draw the line on what dc "should" and "shouldnt" know wrt sex OP???

Personally, I intend to be upfront, honest and frank with my dc because it was denied to me and it was damaging, both to my image of myself (just what a young girl needs...to feel a freak!!!) and my relationship with my parents.

rhubarb0 think you are having a bit of a hard time on here, mainly because of the unfortunate op that this discussion has come under.
I all honesty, I think most teachers would agree with your feelings about the fact that more discussion is needed around the videos. I know the ones you mean and, although I don't remember the words you are quoting, I am not going to dispute your memory, as is obviously made a big impression on you, but bypassed me!
Did you have the opportunity to look at the teachers book that comes with the DVD? It contains lots of suggestions for discussion to be used before and after watching the DVD. Personally, as a junior teacher, I would NEVER just watch them, but would always spend a lot of time discussing things, as you suggest. I enjoy teaching sex ed, as it is one of the times I get to have really meaty discussions with my class without worrying about targets and assessments. I think it is vitally important that we over it in school.

I was very surprised when I went to the parent information session for my dd in year 4 yesterday, to be told they would cover periods in year 5, which I think is too late. I was surprised how many mums said they hadn't discussed periods yet, considering how well developed some of their daughters are. It would be great to leave it to the parents but there really are a lot, unlike you, who will not tell their children anything, for all sorts of reasons.

As teachers we get slated for so much of what we leave out (manners, discipline, cooking, finance, sport, Swahili!) that we get rather passionate about things we really think all children should know about.

crapola when parents have requested their child be withdrawn from sex ed lessons, I have never thought 'arsehole' but tried to discuss why they wanted to take that step. Sometimes it has been for reasons I totally disagree with, and sometimes I have managed to put their mind at rest over an issue. Although I may not be happy with the reason, I have respected that dicision.

Rhubarb - while I'm not sure I entirely agree with you, you do state your reasons clearly and coherently, unlike the OP who seems to have gone swimming on the days english language was taught at her school

We each do what we feel is best for our children - and spend our lives feeling guilty that it's not good enough!

Also, crapola the vast majority of children I have had withdrawn from lessons, in my catchment area have been born again Christian Romany Travellers, who prefer their children to be taught sex ed at home, when much older. They withdraw children of both genders, as is their right.

Sorry I meant particularly religious....not one religion. I don't agree that religious views gives anyone special dispensation to do/not do stuff at school...... never have. If the curriculum is designed to educate our children then that's the education you get, not pick and choose.

Romany Gypsies do surprise me as years gone by children would be given birth to children at 13/14....weren't they? (by years I mean centuries)

Tbh, so would other people, just look at how young marriages were arranged for the upper classes. I believe that the Gypsies I have dealt are very Christian and that where their sex ed beliefs come from, mixed in with traditional gender segregation.

I agree with how you feel about being able to withdraw for religious reasons, but we work sohard with the Gyspy families to welcome them into our school, to break down barriers (on both sides ) and to encourage education, that we have learnt to be pragmatic and pick our battles. If we pushed on this issue, we would lose the children from the school and we want to see the bigger picture.

Agenda.

Oh Rhubarbo ....cooo..weee.
It's meee ... "OP"

Some sieved home made soup?
Sit down ! I'm a pressure group.

I was testing the waters
with developing daughters...

I love to croon,
but they call me a loon...

I engage with debate,
but me they berrate.

with Sex Ed on the state,
it's fast food on a plate,

a swim with icecreams,
I swopped for wet dreams.

turn back the tide?
O they'll tan my backside!

it's snakes and ladders,
Mums with weak bladders!

You're scratching your head,
you don't follow my thread.

I'm a good enough parent,
in the end, I dared on a whim,
swop sex ed with my girls, for a swim.

T.M.I. is not utter"tish toshery",
but P.M.T. is a new line of pottery!

kits,cats,bags, lives,
It's Thelma and Louise
all the way to St.Ives.

If anyone is interested in seeing how sex education is actually taught in schools ? watch teacher net. They have examples of lessons and give guidance to teachers. Holland has the lowest teenage pregnancy rate ? strangely they have the most comprehensive sex education for children. The sexualisation of children is a result of the media and the over sexualisation of society in general ? have you watch MTV recently. It is also down to some weak parents allowing their children to watch inappropriate TV, and buy unsuitable clothes. I have confronted a shoe shop owner regarding the fact that he was selling stiletto (red patent) sandals that would in a larger size look good on a 21 year old slapper looking for a good night. I actually felt sick.

Some of the girls in my dd's year 5 class have been getting a bit silly about 'going out' with the boys, and wittering on and on about who's out with whom.

Some of the mums think this is because they've been doing SRE and it's 'given them ideas'. My perspective is more that it's obviously very timely that they are doing SRE.

Yesterday in SRE they were told that it was inappropriate for them to be acting in this way at their age. Where do you stand on that, Rhubarb?

The OP is clearly an idiot and Rhubarb0 is not.
But Rhubarb0 you do confuse me with your reasoning. On one hand you say the SRE doesn't go far enough (with which I agree) but on the other hand you think talking about self touching with 7 year olds is far too much information. An argument like 'my child isn't ready' just doesn't cut it for me.

I think that telling 7 year olds that touching yourself feels nice is just a comment, a fact, just like telling them that touching a flame hurts. It's about exploring/understanding your body, not sex. And I really cannot understand why you see it as confusing to tell children that something can feel good but that there is a place for it. Again the same applies to many other things.
And I think that is very important for children to know that is it ok to do it yourself but not ok when someone else does it.

And lastly, I really don't have a problem with my 9 year old being told that masturbation is also called wanking, I still won't allow him to swear :)

Badbagel et al, I don't mind at all discussing this but find Crapola's arguments merely there to cause offence and I think she is just trying to get me to react and kick off an argument.

As I said before, it's a sign of a really really poor argument when you resort to insults like 'arsehold' and make sweeping generalisations about gypsies and those who take an interest in sex ed.

The masturbation side of things was just one reason I took my kids out, here are the other reasons:

I talk to my children about sex as part of a normal discussion, usually when they ask questions or hear/see something on the TV. I don't agree with sitting them all down as a class and making a big deal of it. I think it should be spoken about within a normal class context, within biology and when they have RE.

Every child is different and I don't agree with Years 2/3, 3/4 and 5/6 being lumped together to watch the DVDs as the age ranges are huge and some children will handle it better or worse than others.

I don't particulary agree with street terms and although both my 7yo and 10yo know these words, I don't really want them thinking that because some teenage boy said the word wanking on the DVD that it's ok for them to do so. We don't swear at home although if asked I'll tell them what the word means and that it's offensive. I view the term wanking as offensive as using the word fucking for having sex.

Not every school follows the handbook - the school I helped out at certainly didn't. Perhaps if they did I wouldn't mind as much. I feel that it should be compulsory for the school nurse to be there and to talk to the children about privacy, keeping yourselves safe, saying no and so on. It is irresponsible I believe, to tell children how to have sex and then just hope they don't. In DVD3 it was only briefly mentioned, once, that sex was illegal under 16. As there are so many of our youngsters having sex earlier and regretting it I think there should be more emphasis on this and on saying no and not being pressurised.

IMO, the DVD aimed at the little ones does contain too much unnecessary information and again I don't like the fact that if they are all sat there watching it, it does make a bigger deal out of certain things.

It's a rather lame argument to say that if we don't have sex ed we will end up back in the 1930s when sex was frowned upon and enjoyment certainly banned. This generation of single mums, mixed families, free contraception and liberal attitudes will ensure that sex simply won't be seen as dirty anymore.

The few families (and I mean few) who do have that attitude would only take their kids out even if it was compulsory, so you will never stop that. But kids who grow up in those families still have a better chance of finding out for themselves because of the society in which they are being brought up in. Attitudes have changed even since I was a kid.

I hope I have made my argument clear enough. I cannot speak for other schools, but my children are not the only ones taken out (and no we are not gypsies or Mormons or belong to any kind of sect) and the teachers are excellent about it. Kids come and go for lots of different reasons and the kids who don't watch the DVD just go into the next classroom. It's hardly noticed, especially with mixed year groups who all go off at times to do different things anyway.

I did watch the DVDs, I did have discussions with the teachers and they were very understanding. Whether or not they thought me an arsehole I have no idea, but I doubt that everyone is quite as common or closed-minded as Crapola.

My other main argument was that it should never be made compulsory at primary level. The government already have far too much control over our children and I'd like to be able to parent my kids as I see fit without the government stepping in. Whether you agree with someone else's parenting choices or not, you cannot force a parent to make the same choices you do just because you feel you are in the right. It's almost as though the government is saying that parents don't know what is best for their children and that really annoys me.

Phew! Can we move on now?

Minor detail, rhubarb0 , Gypsy is a recognised ethnic group, and ,as such, should be capitalised. Wouldn't normally pick upon it on here as we all miss capitals off when typing in a hurry, but you did take the time to capitalise Mormon, so thought you might like to know.
I think you shoe, by your posts, that you have though this through very thoroughly and have made so good points. It would be lovely to think that sex ed could be just taught as part of the normal curriculum, and not made such a big issue of. I think we do ourselves a big disservice as teachers by calling it sex ed. It make parents more jumpy, when often it is just health and body awareness.
We also teach a drugs awareness course in year 5, which sounds nuts, but is actually very little to do with drugs per se, but more about making informed choices and developing strategies for saying 'no' to nothing you don't want to do. It covers friendships and empowers the children to stand by their decisions.

Shoe= show btw!

"and when they have RE." Rhubarb.

Your comments angered me.... for their sheer ridiculousness.

Sex Ed in RE....what does God think about wanking?

Funny that you have no desire to stop them being fed faith but not fact.
Religion should be taught as beliefs, sex ed should be compulsory.

'It would be lovely to think that sex ed could be just taught as part of the normal curriculum, and not made such a big issue of. I think we do ourselves a big disservice as teachers by calling it sex ed. It make parents more jumpy, when often it is just health and body awareness'

Completely agree Boatto!

It's just sad that people still have such a huge hang ups about the word 'sex' Watching a dvd is made into a 'big deal' because the parents/adults make it a big deal.