T.M.I. =Sex Education for under year 5 and 6 in Primary Schools

[Poeteats4gals]

Hi fellow passionate Mums!!!

Sex Education is not mandatory ...yet. Perhaps September. Parents have many legal rights in this area. They have a legal right to ask for The Sex Education Policy for the school and to scrutinise it and to ask to see DVD's and they have the right to withdraw their children to go swimming as I did today.

If your child is disturbed in any way by the Sex Ed. materials used in the school you can take your child for counselling and have same recorded by your G.P. and seek legal advice. Groups of parents can go to a solicitor especially if you were not informed. The law after all is there ,supposedly , to protect the innocent...our children whom we entrust to be educated.

Schools telling little kids about Sex Ed.is a bit like schools telling them about the tooth fairy or Santa without telling parents. It deskills us as parents and gives kids too much information , too young...what do you think?

The kids chat about things they don't need to know, simply because they are being taught. It's the Garden Of Eden ....all over again ...knowledge!

How about reading , writing , Maths and leaving Sex Ed to us?

WE so know the stage our kids are at!
Anyway ..has Sex Ed. worked to bring down STD's or teenage pregnancy rates?

Let's have some teaching on self esteem
and gift and talent awareness instead that g further in schools that an e mail and a course at a weekend when its down family time.

We know our kids best in this oversexualised culture and this is best to come from parents as and when it comes up..What do you think?

[OTheHugeManatee]

IroningBoard That'd be 'ornithoapiphobia', shurely?

[Highlander]

wanking is a street term for masturbation. I would not have a problem with my 9 year old hearing that on a DVD.

Sex is normal, and any child needs to know about it hwatever their age. It's good that sex is discussed, in an age-appropriate manner, at school. By the age of 12 I would want my DSs to confidently, amongst their peers, be able to discuss contraception and understand the risks of sex without a condom.

That confidence will not come with a quick one-off chat at the age of 10.

[Highlander]

interesting points Rhubarb.

[JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar]

PerAr6ua - mine too. I was so looking forward to being the Modern Parent, too

[TheRhubarb]

I think you are all missing the point a bit.

Can I ask how many have actually taken the time out to view the DVDs rather than just go along with what the school says?

Do you know how much time is devoted to talking about it after the DVDs have been watched?

None. Kids are asked if they have any questions. Invariably none offers their hand so the class is finished and that's it. An impersonal DVD of 20 minutes has just provided your child with sex education.

Teenage pregnancies are still high in this country as are STDs. The only reason teenage pregnancies stats are going down is because of abortion. Abortion rates are up. Telling our kids how to have sex is not going to stop unwanted pregnancies, underage sex or regretful sex.

Newsbeat recently reported that a huge percentage of teenagers said they regretted having sex so young and many said they felt pressurised into it.

But let's not tackle those issues. Let's instead tear apart anyone with objections to these DVDs as religious nuts who need their head examining. Because that's the obvious grown-up way to have these debates.

[BitOfFun]

I don't see the grounds for withdrawing them from class and separating them from their peers. If you feel the DVD is insufficient, either add to it yourself, or take it up with the school/policy-makers. Not watching at all doesn't achieve anything except possibly mark your children out as the class babies to be teased.

[titchy]

Rhubarb - doesn't that just demonstrate that schools need to do MORE than just the 20 minute dvd? Not less which is what you seem to advocate?

• pregnancy rates cannot be lower becuase of abortion rates - you have to be pregnant to have an abortion!
  
  Most parents I think do educate their children about being safe in relationships, making informed decision etc etc. But a significant minority don't, and I'd guess that it's this population that tend to get pregnant early. That 20 minute dvd has got to be better than nothing surely?

[TheRhubarb]

BoF, my kids are not teased.

titchy - I think it signifies that more needs to be spoken about relationships, peer pressure, safety etc. The DVDs are woefully inadequate and they do, imo, go too far one way and not far enough the other way.

Sorry, meant to say teenage mum rates are down because more teens are having an abortion.

[OddBoots]

Terrible thing to teach children how their bodies work isn't it, those teachers ought to be ashamed.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

@Rhubarb..... I know exactly what's in my DS's sex ed DVDs because all parents were invited along to a meeting to view them and to discuss the way in which the lessons would be managed. I know exactly how much time was spent and on what subjects. The lessons were managed by a teaching assistant who, in a previous role, had been a nurse... so all questions were handled in a matter-of-fact fashion and the correct biological terms were used throughout.

You say you'd like your children to learn about biology? Well what is reproduction if it isn't biology? FWIW The only person that withdrew their child from the classes in my DSs Y6 after the meeting was the father who happens to be a fundamentalist christian pastor. And I think that says it all.....

[CrapolaDeVille]

Year 2 DVD talks about wanking???? Really?

[CrapolaDeVille]

5-7 years old
how animals and humans reproduce, and how their offspring grow into adults
how to recognize external parts of both the male and female human body
how to recognise similarities and differences, and to treat others with sensitivity
7-11 years old
learning about the growth and reproduction processes common to humans and other animals
stages of the human life cycle

[feckwit]

Not in our school Rhubarb. The DVDs were accompanied with a proper discussion and children DID ask questions. Ditto my daughter had the Cervical Cancer jab and they were told what it was and why they wanted to try to prevent it.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

The DVDs I saw did not use the term 'wanking'. 'Masturbation' was mentioned briefly an there was a remark about the clitoris that, when touched, 'it feels nice'. As a group of parents we thought that would probably not register with the average 10/11 year-old quite the same as it would with a fully-sexualised adult.

Which is another point. A sexualised adult may view a stylised cartoon depicting the sex-act as 'porn'. A non-sexualised child is not going to view it the same way.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

('sex-act' what am I a tablod journo?) Meant to say 'sexual intercourse', of course!

[TheRhubarb]

Cognito - we were invited to a meeting too, only 5 parents turned up. I was a TA in the school and I can categorically that the school is not obliged to discuss the DVDs further and most don't. That your TA was a school nurse is fortunate for your school.

Would you judge me for taking my kids out? Do you presume me to be a religious nut instead of just a concerned parent?

Biology is one thing, telling 7yos that it feels nice for a girl to touch herself is something else entirely.

Crapola that was DVD3 for the year 6's aged between 10 and 12 (my dd is in yr 6 at the age of 10, a summer baby).

Let me make myself clear. I do not object to telling children about sex, about where babies come from. What I do object to is slapping on a DVD and saying there you go, that's your sex education. I also object to the lumping together of children to watch these DVDs are there are some significant age gaps and significant maturity levels. Parents are best placed to know how and when their children should be taught something.

If a parent wants to take their child out for RE or sex ed then they should have the absolute right to do so for as far as I am aware, neither are on the curriculum.

I do think that society over sexualises children and I think that telling them all about sex (not just their bodies but actual sex) from the age of 7 is too young. Adults are forcing kids to grow up far quicker than in previous generations.

And if the term wanking was on the TV before the watershed there would be an uproar. I do not send my child to school to learn vulgar and offensive sexual terms.

[feckwit]

But what is wrong with a girl knowing it feels nice to touch herself?

[seeker]

RhubarbO - that doesn not reflect what happens in any school I've had anything to do with.

[TheRhubarb]

feckwit, both my nieces recently had the jab, they weren't aware of it and neither was their 21yo sister. They didn't know how cervical cancer developed or how it could be prevented. They just went ahead with the jab because their mother told them too.

Different schools handle it in different ways which is also wrong. There should be a national sex education agreement and every school should be obliged to discuss any DVD with the children afterwards - ideally with a nurse and not a teacher that the kids know well, as children tend to feel embarrassed asking questions of people they know.

At our school if kids had questions they wrote them down and put it in a box. We had one question about periods.

There isn't enough said about relationships, about peer pressure, about legal issues, about self respect, about STIs.

[TheRhubarb]

As I said seeker, different schools and all that.
I can only speak from experience.

feckwit, I don't particularly want my 6/7yo being told about masturbation. That was the only part of that particular DVD I objected to. I thought it unnecessary. How can you tell kids that touching themselves feels nice and then tell them it's rude to do it in public? It's sending out confused messages. And where is the info on keeping themselves safe and not letting others touch their private parts?

[JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar]

I do actuallly agree (kind of) with you, Rhub

One of the most important skils you can equip your child with is the ability to say "no" and avoid being ppressurised into behaviour they're not happy with - be that pressure to have sex or take drugs, pressure to vandalise the local playpark or nick a car, or pressure to join the crowd and pressurise someonelse to have sex/take drugs and so on.

I say that as someone who lost her virginity, consensually, at a very young age and with no regrets. The consent part and not having given into pressure are the reasons I have no regrets.

Schools have a role to play in this.

I did take the trouble to find out what was being covered in ds's Y5 sex ed. It was all very benign - the vital information about puberty basically. The teacher showed parents the DVD and we were invited to discuss our concerns with the school nurse (who was leading the sessions). It was all pitched about right imo.

I also agree with you Rhub wrt discussing this properly rather than taking the piss out of the op. But the OP comes across as being daft as a fish. Had he/she taken a more rational stance the discussion might have been more constructive.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

So only 7 parents turned up to the meeting. You think their children will be getting good quality sex ed at home? Long involved conversations about personal responsibility & morality? Or are they going to be exactly the type of child that, if school didn't fill in the gaps, mum and dad aren't going to do it for them?

[feckwit]

You are right that not enough is said, so rather than withdrawing children from sex ed, surely we should be a) campaigning for more sex ed that explores in depth (although have to say I feel my children have had pretty decent sex ed so far) and b) ensuring that we as parents, continue the school's good work at home by ensuring children can approach us and have full and frank discussions?

[Beamur]

I have no problem with sexual education being taught in schools, good schools probably do more to comunicate the content of this to parents than others and equally, I think if I was bothered by what was proposed, then as a parent, I would want the choice for my child not to have this education.

However..The thing that bothers me about the OP is this sentence: The kids chat about things they don't need to know, simply because they are being taught. It's the Garden Of Eden ....all over again ...knowledge!

Knowledge is therefore wrong..? 'Don't need to know?' WTF

Tis the other way round, knowledge empowers you and helps you make good decisions.

[TheRhubarb]

feckwit, I withdraw my children because I don't want them to be taught vulgar swearwords and I don't want them being told conflicting messages.

So it's ok to touch yourself but why not in public? When little kids fiddle about in class they are told not to do that, then they watch a DVD which says it's nice and not at all wrong. ???

I also want to make a stand against the government who says this should be compulsory. No it shouldn't. Imagine the uproar if prayers became compulsory? It is not part of the curriculum and therefore parents should have those rights to withdraw if they wish. You may not agree with parents taking their kids out, but surely you agree that it is their right if they want to?

Cognito - do you not think that parents will not now discuss sex with their children at home because school does it for them? So when a school fails to deliver sex ed properly then what is the consequence for that child? Bad sex ed is worse than no sex ed at all.