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FURIOUS with Gove's maths comments

277 replies

BusterGut · 29/06/2011 19:38

Angry Angry Angry

The man is a total twat.
He is so out of touch, he must be living on Mars.

Bloody 'pre-algebra' - that's missing no. sums in Y2.
Bloody 'maths every day' - who doesn't?
Bloody teaching maths till 18 ????????? Shock (Pity the sec sch maths teachers)

GGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.Angry
(I've written to the slimy little toad. Anyone else going to join me?

OP posts:
Feenie · 01/07/2011 22:37

Oh Christ, not you as well. You are like peas in a pod. Seriously, I'm off. You wouldn't be able to hear me over your back slapping anyway.

Gooseberrybushes · 01/07/2011 22:45

oh dear

everybody agrees but two - and those two are just too many for you - so you have to start with the snidery

Gooseberrybushes · 01/07/2011 22:46

and then just disappear

ludicrous

Jux · 01/07/2011 22:55

Yes LilyBolero, and I do agree, but if those things are already being covered in primary who will be being taught now? They start in primary, and maths in secondary carries on from that. That's all I meant-it's been being done for a while already.

The people who would need those lessons now are past 18 and won't get them unless Gove forces everyone to go to evening classes.

LilyBolero · 01/07/2011 22:55

Feenie who was that aimed at?

LilyBolero · 01/07/2011 22:57

No, I agree, it's great that they're taught in primary. But I think come secondary, maths becomes more and more technical (I got an A at A level and by then I felt like I had departed all reality), whereas I think many people would benefit from a 'maths for life' type course.

That's all. Just because we cover Shakespeare in primary doesn't mean it can't continue through to secondary!

cazzybabs · 01/07/2011 23:05

The trouble with maths is people are afraid of it including teachers. I guess you have to make it relevant and exciting - I think it is easier with literacy to do that. My worry with "making" people study it to their 18 is you are going to further decrease people's self-esteem by making young adults who struggle with numeracy struggle further unless you are careful in how it is taught. I am not great at maths but I think it is like any skill you need to practise practise practise.
We certainly do an hour of numeracy a day (I teach year 1) and in fact we do a lot extra - counting stuff, measuring - all extra to the numeracy hour as was. Plus we do problem solving.

And you will get shit teachers if the pay is crap ... because good teachers are probably good at other things and can get better pensions else where!

I also think Grove is a twat who hasn't a clue

Gooseberrybushes · 01/07/2011 23:07

Kalo: sorry I seemed to ignore you there.

Anyway I got involved in the wrong conversation, too late now but Jux and Lilybolero I think this is v interesting. One thing I would like to say is that I think it's good that statistics and probability have been introduced to primary maths. I think it's a little too early (Y4 in my experience?) but I think they're very difficult to start at A level - which is what happened in my day - which meant I didn't do them at all until I did OU.

Anyway you've got your own thing going there, just wanted to agree with Jux about the subjects but with Lily about the general thing.

moondog · 01/07/2011 23:09

'Self esteem' Tick
'Gove is a twat' Tick
'Pay teachers more because they are undepaid' Tick
Education as entertainment 'make it exciting' Tick

'like any skill you need to practise practise practise' At least youn have said one sensible thing.

Gooseberrybushes · 01/07/2011 23:12

Moon you have recommended TD before I think?

moondog · 01/07/2011 23:16

I have indeed Gooseberry and do so at any available opportunity.

LilyBolero · 01/07/2011 23:48

I tend to think that introducing them at primary is good, but actually, at secondary, even for 'non-maths students' more depth can be gone into. Would help prevent the media brain-washing people!

edam · 02/07/2011 00:05

Gove does seem to have a nasty habit of opening his mouth and inserting his foot.

Question is why is he so keen to lie about what happens in schools? I'm doing him the courtesy of assuming he's not just incredibly lazy and unwilling to check the facts before sounding off... which suggests he must be doing this deliberately. Why?

edam · 02/07/2011 00:10

Let's not forget this is the man who expected mere taxpayers to shell out for his Loire cabinet, Manchu table and Carmargue chair. Maybe he could use a few maths lessons? Gove caught out on expenses

He originally defended his claims and only offered to pay back the cost of a cot mattress - because items for children were specifically against the rules. Changed his mind PDQ when Dave pointed out Loire cabinets and Manchu tables might look a bit like taking the piss, though.

moondog · 02/07/2011 00:39

But it's ok for Diane Abbot to send her son to a private school?

And Polly to buy herself a million pound home and not tell everyone what her husband earned with the Audit Commission despite insisting everyone else should reveal theri earnings?

And Margaret Moran to claim over £20 000 for dry rot in a house two hours for her constituency.
Here are a few other expenses claimed the class warriors. I note Kaufman has expensive taste in flooring.

edam · 02/07/2011 01:30

how is that relevant to Gove making stupid and plain wrong comments about maths teaching? And where did I say any of the things you mention are OK?

There was shit on all sides over expenses - but GOVE is the one attacking maths teachers right now, so it's relevant to check his record. If it was a Labour education secretary, it'd be worth looking at theirs.

edam · 02/07/2011 01:31

(And while you are bringing up cases, why didn't you mention Cameron, or Clegg, or duck houses or moats?)

moondog · 02/07/2011 10:17

I might well have done-had you not so cleverly got there before me.
So thanks for that.

I'm with the Telegraph on tihs-they were all as bad as each other in their haste to get their noses in the trough. As one of my friends is an MP and the other a journalist on the Telegraph, I'm also aware that this is only the tip of the iceberg.

moondog · 02/07/2011 10:27

It is amusing how you link Gove's maths policies to his er .....choice of furniture. That's a non sequitur if ever I read one.

How about this one? I find it runs together a little more fluidly. It's that old class warrior, Diane, on Mumsnet incidentally.

'All I know is that my son had a less than ideal childhood because his mother was both a single parent and an MP. When he turned 11 I decided to make a decision that was (for once) about him. But it did not stop me from campaigning for better education in Hackney. And we now have 5 new secondary schools and results have got much better from the situation I faced 10 years ago.'

Only a leftwinger could wring victim status out of being an MP.

Obviously an immaculate conception too. No father around see. Hmm

But, I'll er..... send him to a private school so he doesn't have to mix with the great unwashed, the people that voted for me.

fuzzpig · 02/07/2011 10:41

Mark

fuzzpig · 02/07/2011 10:43

Oops Blush

Marking place, I'm doing an OU maths degree ATM and was thinking about teaching in primary... Not sure if I'd hack it though, as I've been hearing for so long about all the govt control and bureaucracy etc... I don't know. Not graduating for a few years so I have a while to decide Confused

squeezedatbothends · 02/07/2011 18:30

They're kicking our arses economically because they have a huge manufacturing base and enormous amount of cheap labour not because they do maths everyday. The OECD tests which Gove uses to bemoan our woeful quality of Maths in the international league tables actually test creative application of knowledge - our students do badly because they are taught a swallow and spit curriculum and can't be flexible and adapt. In Finland, frequently appearing at the top, there is no formal testing of young children, a fostering of independent thinking skills and a masters level teaching profession. That's what makes a difference. Gove is pressing ahead with ill researched ideas. Look at what has happened in America - Obama's 'back to basics' approach to education has massively backfired. He's now having to get his wife to spearhead a campaign to return to creative teaching and learning and an Arts rich curriculum. Why - because standards began to fall not rise when he took these things away.

JohannaM · 02/07/2011 18:54

Arriving late but here I go.

We will never be of the same standard as Europe or the Far East as long as the UK persists in adopting the PC nonsense about education that has come from over the pond.

Gillg57 · 02/07/2011 19:10

BusterGut,
Fear not. He is bound to make a u-turn. I hope someone is keeping a mathematical record of how many u-turns he and his government have done!

Ishani · 02/07/2011 20:18

Fact is there are kids leaving primary schools not knowing their times tables, a lot of the problem in the teaching methods in state schools is the methodology, mine moved into private and suddenly maths clicked for them and more importantly their confidence grew, my girls would now tell you they are good at maths. Not something I ever expected to hear but am bloody delighted.