Parents to be fined £1000 if their kids are bullies

[Caligula]

here

Um... what are we supposed to do? Go to school with them to make sure they behave?

What the hell is this government on? It's like a bloke in a pub whose had a couple of pints and comes up with some brilliant simplistic solution to a problem. Then makes a white paper out of it. I wonder if they get their ideas from sitting in pubs with pissheads.

I like the idea that we can return to tribal responsibility for the actions of individuals as well - let's re-introduce family feuds, like the Albanians have, shall we? And isn't collective punishment against the UN charter? This would be amusing if it wasn't so barking.

mmmm Caligula, I think its a bit misplaced.... but the intentions are good. Some parents are not that arsed if their child is a bully as long as they are not being bullied!

This might work with the tiny minority of parents who have not been interested in their children getting out of control.
For desperate parents struggling to hold it together it will be a disaster.
And if it gets to this stage it's hardly going to change the kids' behaviour either.

True, but I really don't see how enshrining the legal principle that we're responsible for all our children's actions even when we're not with them, will solve the problem of discipline in schools.

Looks like a simplistic short cut, to avoid actually doing anything "real" about behaviour standards in schools.

Perhaps its a short, sharp shock necessary for parents to take action before it ever gets to the stage where a £1000 fine will be enforced.

My db (14) was bullied badly all last year by one boy in particular. His money was taken from him every lunchtime and my Mum didn't know about it. He's sooooo skinny anyway.

It was just awful.

But what are parents to do about it, short of going to school with the child and ensuring that s/he doesn't bully anyone?

Sorry Caligula, I wasn't finished that post, but had to move PCs!!!

Anyway.... as I was saying.... DB was bullied by this boy... lets call him Paul. Took his money off him every lunchtime. DB joined lots of lunchtime classes like Chess and Spanish just to avoid seeing Paul in the canteen.... and he didn't have any money left to buy lunch anyway!!!

It only came to light when Paul and his friends assaulted my DB at Football training outwith school. My other brother (16) was there and stood up for my littlest DB.
Then assaulted him again in school and hid his bags before class.

Police were involved...... My Mum & Dad spoke to his Mum numerous times. Finally, his Mum forced him to come around and apologise to DBs face.

School wouldn't get involved!!!!

A year on and they are BEST FRIENDS!!

My point being, that it just took someone to phone his Mum and tell her exactly how serious the problem was to kickstart her into taking some action. And it worked. Okay.... not widespread research, but had my parents not taken it upon themselves to phone Pauls Mum every single time something happened and demand an apology then who knows what might have happened coz DB was breaking out in terrible excema with the stress and worry of it all.

I think its an great idea. Too many parents expect others to sort their kids out and then complain when someone tries to do it. Schools no longer have any powers to do anything that actually works but at the end of the day - you have kids - you are responsible 100%. Too right that people should at last take some responsibility for their own children. Its about time!

So Helsi, are you intending to go to school with your kids every day then? And when they're teenagers, are you going to accompany them to nightclubs etc., so that you can take 100% responsibility for them?

SA - how would a £1000 fine have helped in the situation you've described? Do you think it would have made the mother of they bully more co-operative than she already was?

It does not mean being with your children 24 hours a day in the literal sense. That has never come into it. HOWEVER, if my child was soooo bad then yes I would. I would sit at the back of each class and escort them around the school. I will go to any lengths to protect my child and try and teach them values and respect.
I don't know about anyone else but I have come across too many parents who for example, when someone else tries to discipline their children be it a teacher/police etc they are too quick to go around to the school and tell them to leave their child alone. They then do nothing to address whatever the bad behaviour was about. What does that teach a child? Have they never thought that maybe their child did something to warrant being disciplined? No they are of the same juvenile attitude to their kids in that everyone in authority ios out to "get them" or it is someone elses fault. Why can't people just take responsibility and try and help their kids grow into decent people?
Also remember that a child is up to and inculding the age of 17 so we are not just talking about primary school children here.

O.... K.....

So if every parent decided to do that, i can see classrooms getting pretty overcrowded.

And nightclubs? Will you escort your children to nightclubs?

I just find it ridiculous to say that we are 100% responsible for what our children do. When they're two days old, yes. But as they grow up, how can we possibly be 100% responsible for them? Part of growing up for children, is learning to take responsibility for their own actions, and part of parenting, is learning to let go and trust them to take responsibility for themselves and their behaviour and to hope that the values we've given them will enable them to behave appropriately. A law which says that we can't let that happen, seems very strange to me.

I have never come across nightclubs for children! I have 15 years before mine can go in a nightclub LEGALLY and by then I am working damn hard to make sure I am happy that she won't need escorting. Ypu are talking as though your childen are going to be trouble well even if they are it is your responsibility to do something about it. If you have children going to nightclubs then if they are badly behaved tell them they are not going - end of story. You are the parent!

Additionally, if classrooms were to get overcrowded by parents (gosh we are talking a lot of naughty childen here!!) then if that is the case then give teachers etc the powers to discipline!!

Um, nightclubs for children do exist, but I don't know what they're called. Parties? Discos? Yoof clubs? I'm talking about teenagers here, 15, 16 year olds. I went out to parties when I was that age, without my parents. Didn't you?

Do you really think your children are never going to behave badly? Ever?

But that's the point as well Helsi - perhpas if teachers did have the power to discipline, the government wouldn't need to introduce collective family punishments for individual children's behaviour.

Sorry, but I think it's a good idea too. Half the bullies I see, their parents don't give two hoots what their children are up to. I was bullied at school and my dd sometimes get picked on herself now that she has started school. Our crime was to be quiet and different. So why should we carry the psychological scars with us for the rest of our lives? If your child goes into a school and physically attacks another child, or threatens too, then yes I do think the parents should be hauled up to answer for it. Half the time the problems stem from home. By forcing parents to take responsibility for their children's behaviour, we might cut the rising tide of bullying.

not enough to be worth fining £1000.00 for. additionally, parties/discos etc usually have chaperones anyway - or should have. I would not let any child of mine go to one without appropriate supervision at that age.

Yes I did go to parties etc at that age but my parents always checked about security etc first. I had a curfew and if I did misbehave then I knew about it. Usually a grounding or a fine.

I learnt a lot from my parents and I have turned into a decent person as has my brother. We have values and boundries and we respect our elders.

Lets not get this out of context. the £1000 fine is not just for general misbehaving - yes all kids are prone to that. this is for the extreme cases where parents do not take responsibility.

Caligula every child behaves badly at some point. But this is bullying we are talking about, not a one-off tiff in the playground, but repeated bullying. That article says that parents "may" find themselves in court, so I take it that this is a last resort. If you do not tackle your child's behaviour, if you do not see bullying as a problem, then this government 'slap in the face' might help those parents to sit up and take notice of their children for once!

I am not wanting to preach here but there really are some AWFUL parents around - most of which the majority of folk never come into contact with. But they are around. As there is no law against choosing who can have kids and who can't then you find some children being born into appauling lives (I've seen it). rather than take these kids into care, the government wants as many childen to stay in families as possible and this means that some parents are sent to attend parenting classes and others still learn nothing and the behaviour of the kids shows the lack of responsibility and so yes IMO a fine is a better step than leaving society as it is.

just a threat or two from the parents letting their bully child know that they will be in school with them ie: in class, in lunch ect.. would embarress the kid enough to stop them bullying.

so I think the threat from the goverment could be a good thing just to let the parent of the bully know, that their kid is a menace and they better sort it out.

And what about the other half?

What about parents who do care, who don't know their child is bullying?

Or where the bullying is as a result of specific circumstances, such as family breakdown or having previously been teh victim of bullying?

How will £1000 fines make things better?

it also goes higher than bullying - we are looking at violence and crime too.

I mean - some crime commited by children is absolutley horrific - stabbing, rape, GBH, mugging, victimisation, murder..the list goes on.

how do children - yes young children - get into this. It baffles me. Surely it starts at home and always has!

Personally I think that a bootcamp idea would work better, or perhaps parents having a benefit stopped, or somethig along those lines.

I think that many parents who will find themselves faced with a fine of £1,000 just won't be able to afford it.

And then what? If they can't afford it, or just plain won't pay it, what then, and what cost to the rest of the tax paying population?

I'd rather see my tqaxes go to sending these bullies to some sort of bootcamp then use my money trying to get parents to pay their fines.

And how does this help the child?

If the child is from a family where he sees violence at home so bullys at school, surely mum or dad are more likely to turn their anger at being faced with a fine onto the child?

How will that help?

How does the child learn by mum or dad being fined? I don't get it.

See I don't think this will ever happen anyway. I think this is just another populist announcement from a government that likes dramatic headlines.

The same people who are supposed to be getting £1000 fines for truanting.

They'll need a high income, with all these supposed fines they'll be getting, won't they?

It won't - if you don't kow your child id bullying then it will be brought to your attention and you will be worked with to take steps to try and resolve it. Only if you refuse to co-operate and take responsibility for doing something about it will you be fined as a last resort.