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Original poster

Parents to be fined £1000 if their kids are bullies

129 replies

Caligula · 21/11/2005 09:55

here

Um... what are we supposed to do? Go to school with them to make sure they behave?

What the hell is this government on? It's like a bloke in a pub whose had a couple of pints and comes up with some brilliant simplistic solution to a problem. Then makes a white paper out of it. I wonder if they get their ideas from sitting in pubs with pissheads.

I like the idea that we can return to tribal responsibility for the actions of individuals as well - let's re-introduce family feuds, like the Albanians have, shall we? And isn't collective punishment against the UN charter? This would be amusing if it wasn't so barking.

OP posts:
helsi · 21/11/2005 13:16

oh please Caligula - that is a flippant comment and very stereotypical. The law applies to anyone. It is not a game.

CliffRichardSucksEggsinHell · 21/11/2005 13:16

This is getting soooo prejudiced now! I'm coming close to taking offence at your presumptions of the middle and working classes, so for the first time ever I'm parping myself out of this topic and will leave you to your presumptious debate!

helsi · 21/11/2005 13:17

I do like boot camp idea. from watching those on TV it would put the fear of god in me but does seem to have an effect in most cases. However, I bet if it were introduced over here like in USA, some Human Rights person would put their oar in.

ks · 21/11/2005 13:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

megandsoph · 21/11/2005 13:17

Mr and Mrs Warburton-Chalkley in Surrey are just as likely to have a bullying son, but I expect they'd read the letters. And maybe even reply to them. (With a solicitor's letter!)

So true, So true!

the parents that see their kids once a month and shower their kids with expensive presents for an hour then piss off back to their business meetings in new york so their really gonna give a toss about £1000 fine hmmmm

helsi · 21/11/2005 13:20

I will say this now and it is not me but I just want some of you to kow how rediculaous and petty this has got:

The parents that have divorced and whose dad sees their kids once a month and whose mother is out of it on drugs and booze and spends child benefit on fags then pisses off out to bingo so they're really gonna give a toss about £1000 fine hmmmm"

see it applies to all people.

I now bow out of this conversation too.

megandsoph · 21/11/2005 13:33

Exactly it can apply to people from all walks of life so exacty how is this fine thing going to help its not

boot camp and/or therepy (sp) is the only way that this thing can be solved it should be done in school time or after school so the no hoper parents don't have a say in the matter. I know it will cost us Taxpayers alot of money to get the councellors/instuctors to work but I agree with helsi that I wouldn't mind using my money to make the streets/schools safer than to risk my dd's getting hurt or taunted everyday by bullys.

ThomCat · 21/11/2005 13:41

That's what I've been saying too. I'd rather my taxes go to helping families, long term, with their bullying child. Fines are a short, sharp, shock and may help 1 in 10, but how about the other 9 families, and how do they really help the child who is bullying. It might make a few parents start to care about their kids but I really don't think it's enough and won't work for the majority.
I'm with a boot camp idea all the way, or any sensible alternative to the fine.

Original poster
Caligula · 21/11/2005 13:41

oh helsi do you really believe that posh people will be fined £1000 when their kids truant or behave badly. The law may apply to everyone, but the penalties don't.

That's why in general, white collar criminals get sent to open prisons for crimes which blue-collar criminals get sent to nasty old victorian prisons for. That's why people like the Guiness fraudster get released when they pretend they've got Alzheimers (and don't get send back to serve the rest of their sentence when it's found out they were lying) and other people, less rich and famous, die in prison even when it's been known and acknowledged by everyone that they're ill. That's not flippant, it's true. Equality in sentencing before the law is a lovely idea. I wish it were a reality.

OP posts:
Original poster
Caligula · 21/11/2005 13:42

I'd also like to point out that a £1000 fine for a family penalises all the other children in that family, who may be perfectly well behaved (or indeed victims of bullies themselves).

OP posts:
SackAche · 21/11/2005 13:48

Caligula - The only reason she did ANYTHING was due to the repeated phone calls from my parents. She just wasn't that bothered about it and eventually made him apologise as there was also a threat of criminal charges against him!!!

The risk of a £1000 fine certainly would have avoided all the phone calls my Mum had to make ans threatening her with the police.....and also would have had it resolved a lot quicker.

Original poster
Caligula · 21/11/2005 13:53

Sorry - hadn't read it carefully enough - I was under the impression that she'd been concerned and helpful but I've just re-read and obviously she only became that on receiving a kick up the arse!

OP posts:
PeachyPlumFairy · 21/11/2005 13:54

OK, well Sam repeatedly attacks kids at school. School now monitoring him and Brother, but if he attacks someone else and I am sued (Sam has AS BTW) I will jolly well be couter suing! School disputes Paeds diagnosis BTW, so they don't classify as SN at all and this would apply to us I guess. And DS2 has been known to strike out after a bad bullying from Sam too. Social Services blank us, school doesn't want to have to deal with... wouldn't building a decent support network for those who do give a damn not work a hell of a lot better than fining those who probably don't care anyway?

Original poster
Caligula · 21/11/2005 14:00

But that would cost money, PPF, and require real resources, real thought and real intelligence, plus a long term approach to problem-solving.

Dream on!

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PeachyPlumFairy · 21/11/2005 14:08

Anyone know how I can find out who my MP is, I'm more than a bit about this and how it would affect people like us (as opposed to non sn famillies whom I am obviously not one of).

You're right Caligula . But the way I see it, Sam put 3 kids in A&E last year at his previous school who instigated his dx. Surely a bit of social skills teaching on anger management would be financially cheaper than dealing with that?

Plus, isn't the whole thing ging to be counter productive? I know a few bullies come from OK famillies, but with many it's ging to be 'OK you little Sht you got us fined a thousand quid now I;m going to kick your as'- cue parental bullying and an even more traumatised kid who goes into school tomorrow determined to be scarier so he can work off his anger wihout getting caught.

Maybe that's what they want- at least it'll cut down on all the media reports, if no-one tells any mroe

PeachyPlumFairy · 21/11/2005 14:36

I e-mailed him. : Dear Sir,

As a parent of a 5 year old diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome, I am concerned by this news story and concerned how it will affect us. Samuel has a diagnosis, yet his school is unable to provide adequate supervision at lunchtimes, and Social Services appear to be ignoring our every plea for help. Samuel is unfortunately a violent child when frustrated, and whilst at this moment his violence is largely aimed at his siblings it is likely to cause school problems eventually. It has in the past, before we moved here.

The waiting list for Samuel to see a Paediatrician here (he was diagnosed in Somerset before we moved here) is long, our appointment for next month was put back to February last week. Without this, Samuel cannot get support to prevent another child being hurt.

I suggest that the energy being put into this scheme would be better focused on helping vulnerable children instead, as most bullies appear to have either low level special needs or a deprived family life, or being going through trauma such as parental divorce. A proper system of Social Services support and access to paediatricians, and family support (such as the charity HomeStart for whom I used to work), would be far more effective and avoid penalising those of us who are already having to fight for our children every step of the way.

With sincere thanks for your time,

I am getting to be a stroppy so and so aren't I?

Heathcliffscathy · 21/11/2005 14:43

ladies if you read the article, the fine would be a last resort and would be the maximum penalty for parents not attending parenting classes under a court order. that sounds far more constructive to me tbh.

PeachyPlumFairy · 21/11/2005 14:49

That sounds good for NT kids yes, but I do hope I made it clear I'm more concerned with invisible disabilities? it's just we tend to get hit by backlash in these things.

mumfor1sttime · 21/11/2005 15:09

I think its a great idea!! Its about time that bullying was recognised in schools.
No, you can not be with your child 24/7 but you are still responsible for how they behave. Schools are there to teach - not to take control of a few idiot youngsters who want to spend their time picking on people and causing havoc.
At my high school, most of the lessons that I attended were taken up with telling 2 lads off for bad behaviour, interrupting the class.
I was also bullied, and badly beaten.
The school werent interested, nor were the police.
My uniform was ripped to shreds and my parents had to buy a new one - for the last month that I was at the school.
I think the issue here is to target persistent and troublesome bullies who need to be stopped. I am a strong believer of boot camps (or similar) for troublesome teenagers/chavs - any children who dont want to learn; get out of the classroom!

doormat · 21/11/2005 15:14

what a flippin waste of taxpayers money again
like the on the spot drinking fine until little blair got caught pissed as a fart, that idea went out the window

just penalise the parents yet again,

agree with parents taking responsibility
but introduce bootcamps for the little shits

mummycan · 21/11/2005 15:15

I agree with Helsi (and normally I am a woolly liberal!) but too many parents refuse to belive there is a problem or "it's just kids being kids). It's not kids just being kids when one child alters their behaviour at school to avoid another at school because they are terrified of being picked on/ beaten / having their dinner money stolen. Wake up the rest of you - if it was your kids being bullied you'd all be on here complaining how the school doesn't care and there's nothing anybody can do - it will be a last resort - it's not an on the spot fine. And for what it's worth YES you are responsible for kids' behaviour even if you are not there - and if they do behave badly it's up to you to make it plain to them that that sort of behaviour is not on whether you are there to police it or not.

doormat · 21/11/2005 15:16

spend the money on bootcamps

mumfor1sttime · 21/11/2005 15:19

bootcamp bootcamp bootcamp!

Original poster
Caligula · 21/11/2005 15:22

Um but what if you make it clear to them that that behaviour is unacceptable whether you're there to police it or not and they still do it?

Do any of you have teenagers?

Don't you remember being one? Did you never do things behind your parent's back that you knew was unacceptable and that they'd kill you for if they found out? Because I did.

OP posts:
handlemecarefully · 21/11/2005 15:22

I think it's spot on, and agree with this measure.

In practice, I think that parents who can demonstrate that they have attempted to deal with a wayward child and have taken measures to try and deter the bullying (colloborating with teachers etc) will not be fined. The law is not a complete arse! Surely charges would not be brought in those circumstances or lawyers for the parents would argue mitigation.