Women 'blamed' for being raped

[monkeytrousers]

here

We really need to reeducate ourselves about this I think. Only a few days ago a poster on another thread was trying to say that acquaintance rape wasn't as bad as stranger rape. It's this kind of ignorance we really need to challenge.

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Fortunately, being so drunk that you didn't know what you were doing is not ever a defence to committing a crime.

What about as a victims defence? Is being too drunk to say no?

I agree Normsnockers and I've said as much in other posts on other threads about the same subject. What I'm objecting to in this instance is that as soon as a debate like this starts 'false accusations' are very soon bandied about in an effort to turn the spotlight away from the issue at hand. I'm sure that's not what you are doing here and I'm not disputing that they happen, but just want to warn against them being given a disproportionate amount of time at teh cost of the the issue at hand, which is the institutional and cultural bias women face in these situations.

If the law was changed to put the onus on the accused to prove that he had taken reasonable steps to make sure that the woman was consenting, then the fact that she was drunk would make it harder for him to prove that. But in the absence of a change in the law, unfortunately at the moment it makes it harder to convict someone, because of the jury tendency to regard evidence as unreliable if given by someone who was very drunk.

2 years ago my niece was sexually attacked by her ex boyfriend,he didn't actually rape her but did masturbate over her.He had entered the house when he knew her mum was out and wanted to have sex with her,he told her he would knock her out if she didn't agree(he had been violent many times before),he put gaffer tape over her mouth and tried to tie up her hands,he also tried to strangle her.I have to say the police were very supportive through the whole process,he was a lying scumbag that kept changing his evidence,the first trial was stopped when he produced an email that he said she had written to him,(he also liked to forge things and was also up for forging letters from banks and the dvla.)You could tell that his lawyer had n't heard half the stuff he came out with, my sister was distraught after the summing up by the defence saying but shes not like that.any way to cut a long story short the jury must have seen through all his lying and found him guilty and he got 4 years on the sex offenders register for life and as he was australian he would be deported as soon as he got out.

Regarding police attitudes, sadly it has always been the case that, in general, police officers are reluctant to believe rape victims. Roger Graef's documentary, A Question of Rape, exposed shocking behaviour towards rape victims - abuse, even. It was made over 20 years ago and sparked changes in procedures. But posts by people who know police officers and say those officers claim there are lots of false allegations show that police attitudes are still overwhelmingly negative and basically demanding women prove their innocence. Strange that in no other case do we demand that victims prove a crime has been committed - can you imagine if you called to report a burgulary and the first question was: 'Are you sure you've really been robbed, madam? This isn't just an insurance job, is it?'.

yes, edam, its insane.

I find this so insanely stupid that I can't even start to comment on it.

my sister is a police officer and used to be a chaperone for rape victims. she guided the victims through the process, ensuring it was as painless as possible for them. she frequently took calls from the women she was dealing with when she was off-duty, spending hours on the phone to them - for no recognition, no extra pay, it was only to support the women concerned.

but hey, that can't be right can it? because all police are disbelieving bullies incapable of treating women with any respect...

sheesh. trite guardianista posturing.

bossykate i think maybe many police officers have that belief but not all obviously. Nobody said All!

I think if a report was to be commissioned the police would be found to be institutionally sexist, if not misogynist, as they were found to be institutionally racist by The Stephen Lawrence Report. Your sister would constitute the exception that proved the rule Bossykate, IMHO.

Ruty, I so agree with your post at 3:06.

I do, however, think blaming the police is to fail to see some even (far?) bigger problems in our justice system, the way we as a society see rape and women's sexuality and in the CPS.
And for anyone who wonders why I loathe the likes of Jordan so much, I really do believe that the view of woman as 'slappers' who are all 'up for it' and who 'love it really' has a lot to do with our lad's mag culture, pornography becoming mainstream and the perception that every woman is like Abi Titmuss or Jordan and begging for it with any bloke. Remember, juries convict or aquit.
Rape is almost impossible to get a conviction on, unless he also cuts his victims throat with wire and sets fire to her as well.
Ian Huntley was acquitted of rape AND women how complained that he raped them never even saw their cases go to court.
It's a HUGE and multilayered problem.

True Aloha, it's just representative of misogyny in society as a whole.

I agree with you on the whole continuum of smut to porn. Headlines in the tabloids about 'roasting' are pornographic in themselves and demean any woman in it's environment. But post modernism or post-feminism, or both, has made it a crime to speak up about the levels of porn entering the mainstream. Pretty soon it will be too late, if it isn't already.

And how do we defend women accused of rape when the only cases publicised these days are of footballers and 'slappers' where the case invariably is dismissed??

Doh, you know what I mean..

there was a very interesting article, think it was Guardian Weekend magazine, recently, which interviewed the editors of the leading lads mags - Loaded, Nuts, etc. All of them save one was a middle class family man, at least a couple of them were mildly embarrassed about the magazine's output, but the overall idea was 'its just a bit of harmless fun' and that women who object to it lack a sense of humour. As you say MT, post feminism, it is impossible`to object to the way women are portrayed in the media or the level of porn rising up into the ordinary press. I don't quite know what the answer is.

ah we agree on something ruty!

oh good aloha!

Oh I heard this today and wondered if you would be talking aobut it here, after the other thread about rape. This is so awful and shows things are even worse than I thought they were really. Right, will read the thread now.

fgs Bossykate, don't you think the way the police handle rape allegations has anything whatsoever, just a tiny tiny tiny bit, to do with the low conviction rate? Just a smidgeon?

And the fact that your sister does it for free speaks volumes - how comes the police force put such a low priority on such work that they don't even pay for it? What your sister does, shouldn't be voluntary, it should be part and parcel of a police officer's paid job when a rape allegation is made.

One of the answers is objecting anyway. I don't mind being called a hairy arsed lesbian as I know the only people who'd call me that are

a) people who obviously don't know me, and

b) probably very sad and deluded individuals

she didn't do it for free - it was part of her allocated work - but her dedication to supporting the women meant that she frequently ended up carrying on supporting people outside her normal working hours.

the fact that such roles now exist in the police was in response to the documentary edam mentioned.

I was just thinking that earlier, that if you're flirtatious and pretty and lighthearted, you're asking to be raped and if you're not, you're a humourless lesbian who probably needs a good shagging to make you into a more acceptable female.

oh and caligula, i didn't mention anything about the police in general or the low conviction rate. you're jumping on me because i didn't join in the all police are completely evil blah blah blah....