Women 'blamed' for being raped

[monkeytrousers]

here

We really need to reeducate ourselves about this I think. Only a few days ago a poster on another thread was trying to say that acquaintance rape wasn't as bad as stranger rape. It's this kind of ignorance we really need to challenge.

Crunchie, you can't legislate on the grounds that one individual wasn't as traumatised as another. Someone who had the same experience as you could very well come off worse and where woudl they stand then?

Rape is a crime, however it affects the victim.

And that other myth of stranger rape, as though aquantance rape isn't or somehow can't be violent. Is very often is!

and sorry, but like SW perfectly illustrates, when under attack we very often go into survival mode where we don't resist o simply switch off in an attempt to negate the trauma as it's happening. Who's to say that's what you did Crunchie and it did help you. But your capacity to recover shouldn't negate the crime itself, no?

You were right dinosaur - the Jeremy Vine thing going on right now is infuriating - this mad woman comparing women showing flesh to putting sweets on a low shelf and being too much of a temptation for children... ridiculous scenarios... don't listen!!

Oh dear.

ah yes, because men clearly have the brain power and self control of toddlers

She's arguing with a woman from "Women Against Rape" who says because they are a victim support group they sensationalise things beause they NEED victims in order to survive! Jeremy Vine has shut them both up and put on a record!

MT I DO hear what you are saying I am just musing whether there COULD/SHOULD be something else. I suppose I am thinking if there were a 2nd degree rape it could be made easier to convict, that the man simply saying - I thought she said yes - wouldn't be enough. That perhaps it could be he would have to PROVE she said yes. IYKWIM

Like I say I am only musing, saying the stuff that comes into my head. It is such an emotive subject, and so difficult to find the answer

I am really really saddened by this report but not in the slightest bit surprised to be honest.
I was raped six years ago, I did report it, which became a horrendous experience in itself.
I will always remember going back to that police station to see the detective who was dealing with my case when he told me that it wasn't going to be taken any further.
His parting words to me were 'You might want to think about wearing a longer dress next time you go out love'
If I were ever to,god forbid, go through that again there is no way I'd report it, I'd rather live with it than have people thinking I 'asked for it'

See your point Crunchie...

I agree with some sort of second degree rape. If nothing else, it might make more charges stick, even if they got lesser sentences - I would be happy with any sentence over them walking away free.

Vicimelly, sympathies from someone else who has been there, though really admire your courage in reporting and wish I had been as brave as you.

My experience of rape didn't change the way I dressed or acted. I really do not believe rapists give a damn over the length of your skirt, I'd be surprised if they even noticed! The things that needs to change is societies attitudes and that of the police, changing how we as women behave in order to avoid rape is akin to not going to london in case of terrorism- ie letting an unseen 'them' win.

How would you distinguish between what is first degree rape and what is second degree rape though?
Without making one be seen as worse or less damaging than the other? Because imo rape is rape what ever the circumstanses.

That's bloody outrageous Vicimelly, I'm so sorry for you, and all you you/us lurking on this thread. All I can say is we need to try to be more compassionate when we hear these claims, even (and especially) the so called 'golddiggers' who follow footballers around.

And Jermany Vine is and always will be an vane prick.

Agree, Tamba. There is some merit to the concept procedurally I suppose, but I think the damage done to a person telling her the attack she has just endured is second level... how terrible!

I reported it, although not straight away, I thnk you go into a kind of shock where you think 'omg did that really happen' and try and convince yourself it didnt. It wasnt until i saw him at work again and he made reference to it that i used the works phone and called the police. They came over to mine in the eveing and took statements and evidence from my home, cups he used etc. This was difficult but i was able to cope well with it as i was in my own home and no one was questioning what i was saying. It was a huge worry that no one would believe you. After going through all the yukky stuff they have to do, tests and everything, I had to give another statement and then another one and also my friend had to give one. Then he was arrested.

After that i heard nothing at all from anyone for nearly a year, no police, no victim support nothing until i got a call saying i had to be in crown court the next morning. That was the scarest bit. They drag up all your sexual history and even go through what you were wearing at the time (fortunatly for me i was wearing 'non sexy' clothes -fluffy bear slippers!) Then you are asked the same question over and over again in the hope that they can try and trip you up and all the time he is allowed to be standing watching you. After that you get the pleasure of listening to him tell lies about you and make you sound like the worlds biggest slut.

Its no wonder that more women dont report it. I recieved no support at all from the police, the CPS or the victim support people, Id never even seen the inside of a court room and had no idea at all how these things worked. I was also 8 months pregnant at the time and the whole experience was very scary. Even though he was found not guilty i am very glad i went through with it as seeing him in handcuffs in a glass box helped me regain some feeling of power, that i hadnt let him beat me and that i was still strong.

Points that went against me were stupis things like, i had worn a skirt to work, i had accepted a gift from him and I had let him give me a lift home and allowed him into my flat. I think views need to change as none of that is justification for rape, No means no what ever the circumstances and people need to stop thinking that women can somehow 'ask' to be raped. (Not people here, just society in general)

Tamba your posts are very informative and should be compulsory reading for anyone who thinks that there aren't deep-seated problems with the attitude of the police and the whole way in which the defence is allowed to operate.

I defend anyone's right to a fair trial, but I would be ashamed if one of my sons became a criminal law barrister and had to spout this pernicious rubbish about women in order to defend a client accused of rape.

I didn't report, because everyone knew I had a bit of a crush on the offender and I knew full well that wold not go in my favour, plus my sisters didn't believe me so why would anyone else? Wish I had, found out about ayear after he was seeing a 14 year old (at the age of 20+), but he had told the voluntary org we both worked with (in different towns) that I had made up this claim, and I was banned from alerting the police. Wuld tell them where to go now but was only 18 and had terrible self esteem.

Funny thing was, after the attack, he turned around and said 'that was rape wasn't it?' so he knew bloody well what he had done. He is however leading a reputable life now, I understand.

I had genetic evidence, injuries the lot but the reputation of the police put me off, and until things change this will continue to happen. I do not believe the stat that 50K women a year are raped, I think it is much, much higher.

Thanks Tamba and well done you for going through with all that - but such a detailed report of how humiliating the whole experience turns out to be for the woman is enough to make most women in their right minds think it's best not to bother prosecuting. Sadly this puts the men who perpetrate such circumstances know this and enjoy the power of having the law on their side almost! Shocking!

I'd be interested to know if you would you still go through the whole procedure again if you had to, knowing what you know now?

Was this a long time ago, do they still drag up your sexual history?? FGS they held wearing a skirt to work agianst you...don't like over half the female working population wear skirts to work...
I read this article with growing disbelief, the bit that got me was that more women considered it was a woman's fault for being raped if the victim was drunk at the time....!!!!!

I thought that it might put women of reporting it after i pressed post and i apoligise for that.

In answer to your question, i can honestly say, that Yes i would go through the whole thing again even knowing that i would get a not guilty verdict. This might sound strange but as humiliating as it was, I still take comfort from the fact that i didnt hide away. I showed him that what he did to me wasnt acceptable, i showed him that i wasnt going to be his victim or his dirty little secret, i showed him that i was stronger than him. He may have had the control and the power at the time, but i took it back. I stood there and told everyone what sort of person he was.

I held my head up high and told the truth. I wont be ashamed of something i had no control over (although it has taken me a long time to get to feeling like this - for 4 years afterwards i felt it was my fault partly because it was insinuated that it was a court)

I lost my job and consequensly my home from reporting him (he worked with me and had been there longer so i got the sack which meant i couldnt pay my rent) but i gained strengh and justice (not in the court sense of the word cause he was found not guilty) but justice in my own mind that i wasnt a slapper who had been asking for it and i proved that to myself by trying my best, giving everything i had to trying to protect other women from him and although he never went to prison, I am hoping that the experience of having it hanging over him for a year and the humiliation of having to explain to his family and friends why he was going to court and having them listen to the evidence and knowing (cause the had to have known, his lies didnt add up) may make him think twice about doing it again. I really hope that anyhow.

It was in 14/01/01 that it happened and it went to court in the December.

PPP for your sisters not believing you!!! To my mind, if you had a crush on him, and said he raped you than that makes you even more likely to tell the truth - why would you say it if you liked the guy????

Yay for Tamba though - It needs more women like you to stand up even if you are sure it will get a not guilty... it will make more men see that women will stand up to them.

Tamba I can see what you mean about distinguishing between the two. I am just trying to think of a way that could lead to more convictions. Perhaps it is in cases where there is no disputing sex took place (both parties admit that, rather than physical evidence that is often washed away), but it is a question of consent. This way the man would ave to prove he believed she said yes.

I suppose I feel if there was a charge like this, less men would 'get away with it' and then in more serious cases like yours (and I think you used to be HB, am I right?) Stupid excuses like wearing a skirt to work just couldn't be accepted - IYKWIM.

forgive me i've just skimmed-read thread. Just want to say, on subject of police attitudes to rape, there was a thread about the woman raped in the birmingham riots earlier this year. A mnetter said her dh was one of the police investigating case, and that actually the woman had 'consented' to sex with two men so that the men wouldn't report her illegal status. Er, sorry, but if that's not rape i don't know what is. But the police saw it as consensual. Very worrying.