Absent fathers to be made into scape goats

[ivykaty44]

absent fathers

as a single mother who has lived without maintenence for periods of time and at times struggled to make ends meet I still think it is awful to suggest making a group of people stigmatised.

there are good NoneResidentParents and there are useless NRP, it isn't just absent fathers but sometimes absent mothers. What sort of country do we live in thuogh where we would want to stigmatise a whole group of people.

Better to keep the CSA free and make it work rather than the clerical mess it is at the moment.

But you're right, it will be hard to get them to listen and they don't particularly want to. Harder still though IMO for women to be heard in society.

BTW mary Just because you felt you wouldn't have made a good SAHM, what makes you think the same applies to another woman?

If we lived in a world where childcare was freely available to women, I think you'd find that the SAHMs through choice are precisely the ones who would make fantastic parents.

I think that women fought a little harder for those things sunshine

I'd rather be single and childless than with a man who would see me go to waste while he worked and built a future for himself.

Why are we marrying these men if they are such shitty, feckless twats? In case we end up 'single and childless?' better than 45 and having to work the checkouts because hubby's buggered off with a younger 'career girl'

A lot of women do think that being responsible for the early years education of their children, is valuable. But it's not. Not according to any research (or anecdotal references for that matter) that I have ever come across.

Can't believe you posted that on MN mary. Could be fun!

The reason it is not considered valuable is because it is not measured as part of GDP. Manufacturing weapons for war is, as is environmental pollution. Which would you say is more valuable to society? Guess who decides what is measured as part of GDP. Yep, it's men.

I think you'd find that the SAHMs through choice are precisely the ones who would make fantastic parents. really? I know some shit stay at home mums. I think that a lot of women aren't the best people to be with their children 24/7, yes.

I don't see my choices as 'subjecting' my daughter to 10 hours out of the home. Rather giving her a chance to expand her horizons beyond what I am able to offer as one person.

I'm not drawing conclusions based purely on the example of my DD & DSD, I am using them to put forward my point, that it is not automatically better that a child stays home with their mother. Even though often the mother belives it is.

No, sunshine it's not considered valuable because there is no evidence of children turning out any 'better' or 'happier' because they had a parent at home.

How on earth could you measure sahps as part of GDP??!

and I'm the mad one....

Sorry, that was a misunderstanding. I thought you were still talking about economic value, not value in terms of outcome. I'd actually agree with you on outcomes.

Sorry, yes I have been talking about outcomes.

Watch this and find out. It most certainly can be counted, except that then we'd have to admit that what women do on a daily basis is fundamentally necessary to keep capitalism going.

We may have wandered off the point just a tad though.

To come back to the OP, surely no one one argue that an absent parent (as in not giving either maintenance or time) SHOULD be scapegoated and the message rammed home that it is unacceptable.

I'll watch it sunshine

I suppose once I have done so I'll be able to comment better but my first thought is that all of this 'women's work' is only able to be carried out if there is someone providing for it financially so it can't be taken as GDP on it's own merit.

Agreed.

But David Cameron is in a privileged position to comment on it.

But the only reason people can go and work outside the home and "provide financially" is because the work that needs to be done in the home, is being done by someone else...

If estate agents don't go to work, the housing market collapses. If women en masse didn't do their job, the next generation dies.

Which would most human beings care about most?

But of course, looking after kids is a shirking skive...

Watch tht film!

There is a post on dadsnet which gives a good man's point of view.

Herbex my eyes are stinging to read from you again that people arent able to work unless there is someone at home. I have agreed that this is sometimes the case when one partner works mega long ours or travels over night etc but please. please stop now. How on earth do you think the majority copes with both parents working?!

The next generation wouldnt die if women stopped being sahms!!

I must be unlucky then, or living in some kind of alternate universe because most of the SAHMs I know are dreary and mollycoddling at best, and neglectful and selfish at worst. I obviously can't prove that to you without introducing them but you'll just have to take my word for it. If it weren't true then i wouldn't hold that opinion.

I do have one very close friend who is a stay at home mum. We have a lot of banter back and forth when she tells me of her latest challenge i.e. having a friend for tea and having to take the dog to the vet in the same day. I call her 'pampered pennie' and she calls me... well... 'mary corporate' actually!! She's awesome, a real laugh, great with the kids, educated etc etc but round here she's in the minority.

The next generation would die if people stopped looking after children.

Obviously the babies would die first.

Then the toddlers.

The older kids might survive and reconstruct a society...

You sound like a real woman-hater Mary. Women who slag off WOHMs when they're SAHMs or SAHMs when they're WOHMs, are doing patriarchy's work for it. I invite you to stop being a handmaiden of the patriarchy.

I'm not suggesting that people stop looking after children

I'm telling you catagorically that it does not require one parent to not work in order for the other to.

So being a feminist means agreeing with everything every women does? Is that right?

I'm still trying to get over 'women's work' to be honest. And I'm the one who hates women.

As a feminist I can't imagine allowing my DD (who I fully expect to be leading this country at some stage ) to view her mother as the one who stays at home with no financial security. I would be very disappointed if she became a stay at home mum. Very.

I'm self employed, I have no work today but a project will be arriving in my inbox in approximately 3 hours time which I will work on through tonight. Probably whilst youre posting on MN.