Absent fathers to be made into scape goats

[ivykaty44]

absent fathers

as a single mother who has lived without maintenence for periods of time and at times struggled to make ends meet I still think it is awful to suggest making a group of people stigmatised.

there are good NoneResidentParents and there are useless NRP, it isn't just absent fathers but sometimes absent mothers. What sort of country do we live in thuogh where we would want to stigmatise a whole group of people.

Better to keep the CSA free and make it work rather than the clerical mess it is at the moment.

What a supportive mother you are Mary. I'll support my children whatever their choices, unless they decide to do something like slave trading or something.

It's "women's work" because throughout history, it has been women who have done it. Which of course, is why it's so despised.

Sorry Mary but your posts are just disgusting. Well done to herbex, isitreally and sunshine for such sensible posts.

Please tell me your a wind-up Mary?

Oh and as stayfrosty said lucky you your employer so generously lets you use work time for going on MN.

I'm not suggesting that one parent doesn't work while the other does.

I'm suggesting that both work. Childrearing is work. It's been defined as not work, because historically, men haven't done it.

When men do more of it, there will be no more of this nonsense about it not being work.

He hasn't decided, he didnt have any choice. He made a commitment when he married her and he's not going to dessert her in poverty, nor his DD. She however also made commitments, but none of those matter. Hey ho.

Why would I take it up with him? I'm proud of what he does.

coco I'm self employed, as I said.

You're right that through history it is the women who did that work, they had no other choice. But now we do so why are we still referring to it as 'womens work' It is most certainly not my job to forgo my financial indpeendance just because I am a woman.

And coco MN isn't actually the real world you know. It is inhabited mainly by mothers who aren't in paid employment. Who obviously will disagree with me. Amongst my peers my opinion is largely agreed with.

Nobody is suggesting that you forgo your financial independence Mary. I don't believe that anyone should be punished by financial dependence, for doing socially necessary work.

Is that right, I'm not sure it is?

Not sure about the WOHM/ SAHM demographic breakdown on here. I'm sure MN have probably done surveys ...

Unless you have large savings of your own that are somehow able to stay out of a dicorce, or a house with a hell of a lot of equity in it, you are forgoing your financial independance by not working. It doesnt matter what you believe shouldn't happen, it does happen.

I think it's clear from the content of most threads.

Have started a survey in chat so lets see.

I don't believe that bringing up children is "not working"

I think anyone who does, has swallowed the patriarchal narrative of the value of men and women.

Im self-employed too but Im under no illusion that makes me some 100% financially independent- some good weeks some dreadful as most self employed find.

I would be surprised if you didnt have to rely on your partner at times as I do due the volatile nature of self-employed work.

Infact Mary a large part of the reason I went SE was due to ridiculous childcare costs- so guess what I have to juggle my work and childcare I dont have the luxury of carting dc off the childminder for ten hours a day.

mary you think we have a choice. But we don't. Not really. We have a hell of a lot more choices than our grandmothers, granted, but we have nowhere near the freedom to make as true a choice as men. You can deny that all you want if it makes you feel superior but 'hey ho' as you put it.

And what's this about your DP having "no choice" - according to you there is always a choice...

Marycorporate doing a survey in chat isn't actually a very good research methodology, you do know that, don't you?

Mumsnet will have done a proper one, you could just ask them about it if you care that much.

I think you are deliberately missunderstanding. Where ever I have used 'work' read 'paidwork'

I mean he has no choice to not support the mother of his child. Unless he went against his morals.

sunshine we don't exercise a lot of our choices as women, I don't beleive.

A lot fo women feel it's going against their "morals" or instincts, not to stay at home with their kids when they're young, Mary, or not to downshift careers so that they can have a good work/ life balance and function as both mothers and workers.

So their choice is limited too.

Hmm.. seeing your ex wife and child starve the same as sending your child to a childminder...

"Marycorporate doing a survey in chat isn't actually a very good research methodology, you do know that, don't you?" Well, no, obviously not or I wouldn't have done it you passive agreesive loon.

I mean he has no choice to not support the mother of his child. Unless he went against his morals.

But this is exactly the sort of choice women are facing everyday. It may look like a choice to the rest of the world, but it's not really.

A woman can climb the career ladder because professional childcare is available? No she can't, unless she ALSO has someone who can care for her child reliably at very short notice when that child is ill, school is shut, needs a dentist appointment etc etc. Most professional childcare will not cover this. Nannies, who are more flexible, are not affordable to most parents. Her partner could do it yes, but then if he earns twice what she does...

Well actually, seeing your wife and daughter starve isn't going to happen because we have a welfare state, which rather helps the 60% of NRP's who don't pay maintenance, to rationalise their choice. They just figure that the kids won't have the best, but they'll be OK. Which is on a par with lots of people's attitude that sending your kid to a CM or staying at home with them, might not be "the best" but it will be OK - or not depending on your attitudes and eventual choices.

But interesting that you think men's feelings about what's best fro their kids, are more valid than women's.

LOL at you having a tantrum.

See I could 'exercise' my choice to dump my DC on their abusive father and resume my career. But that would not be in my children's best interests, so I suck it up, same way as your DP mary. Is that what you mean by choice?

If I had a partner whose salary was 3x mine, yes I could make the 'choice' to continue with my own career and have our house repossessed and our children starve.

Speaking of nannies what is your opinion of this profession Mary?

I mean if chilcare, housework has no value then how can one justify paying a nanny for basically doing what a SAHM does?

Quite Sunshine. I could do the same with mine and go and earn megabucks...

We're just doormats who make the wrong choices...