Chris Pattern says that "atheists are "intolerant" of religion."

[ivykaty44]

Is he correct? And should atheist be tolerant of religion?

Has he been reading Mumsnet?

'cos, like, religious folks are generally sooooo tolerant of non believers

I'm not tolerant of superstitions because it's all mumbo jumbo to me and I don;t tolerate my kids being taught it as fact, either.

And religions are all so tolerant of each other aren't they? Never kill each other cos they believe in a different god or anything like that, no, of course not .

I wish religion didn't exist but I'm not 'intolerant' of it, in that I don't say anything to my religious friends or persecute others who are religious, I would just like to see a world where we didn't have religion but that's not going to happen in my lifetime is it?

I would have to agree to a certain point. The vitriol I have read against religions seems to come from atheists, not other people of faith.

Surely everybody should be tolerant of others beliefs without having them imposed on other groups?

See above secret! Religious people kill each other because of their religions - how much more intolerant can you get?!

I don't think he's correct as a generalisation. There are some atheists that are actively intolerant, certainly. But for most, unless and until religion actually impacts negatively on their life... such as precluding a child from a particular school or some other limitation... the two occupy completely separate worlds.

My analogy would be football. If there are two people, one passionate about football and one with zero interest, both can happily live in their chosen spheres, neither tolerant nor intolerant of each other, not overly conscious that the other exists. But should a football match cause the non-football-follower some inconvenience or vice versa, then they will express an opinion that may not be tolerant.

You are confusing religious with extremism.

Extremists are bully boys who think that their way is he only way- they are not going to even try to understand any other viewpoint on anything because the always have to be right. They use religion to try and force their non-religious views onto people.

I have no respect for these people.

I have respect for those who try to live their lives following the tenets of their faith without doing harm to others. Those are who I believe are the truly religious.

I am proud to be intolerant of a load of nonsense that no one can ever prove is real.

Sheesh, it's like being asked to be tolerant of people who believe in goblins.

See I don't think I am tolerant about religion in my mind, I do think why would someone believe in any type of god. Very much in the same way as I wonder why anyone would want to go and sit and watch 90 minutes of men running around kicking a ball., supporting a "team" who wear a different colour to other teams.

I don't go knocking on peoples doors asking them to turn their back on their god and follow a life without any god, yet religious people do preach at my door, on the radio and at school.

Then they also have the audacity to tell me I am not tolerant and I should be and to be honest I don't think I am very happy about this - which in turn makes me less tolerant

Thinking about it more, I think Patten is really wide of the mark on this one. OK it's annoying for non-believers when Jehovah's Witnesses etc., pitch up on the doorstep but religious groups more generally tend not to evangelise or behave aggressively. They can be easily avoided. And atheists, by and large, aren't picketing places of worship, demanding that religious festivals are abandoned or worse. There have been a few celebrated cases like the British Airways 'crucifix' woman contravening uniform regulations, and the 'we don't like gays' B&B couple, but I think, as a society, we are incredibly tolerant of all kinds of lifestyles including religious and non-religious ones. Sectarianism is alive and well in in Scotland at the moment but atheists don't appear to be involved in that one.

Do we think comments like Patten's and the pope's remark about 'aggressive secularism' are a futile exercise of ecumencial lashing out against a tide of opinion that, for the first time in 2000 years, they're not in a position to change?

I'm religious and tolerate the right of others to their own belief system or none at all. Personally I think intoloerance and disrespect in any camp causes bad feeling and war.

I see lots of very anti-religious threads on MN but haven't seen any recently telling non-believers that what they think is nonsense. Plenty telling me what I believe is nonsense though.

I am athiest and live in a very religious Catholic country with my catholic husband and DS. I make a big effort to be tolorent, religion is all around me and the alternative to tolerance would be to constantly offend my in-laws, neighbours and friends. it also makes me feel a bit smug and superior that I am more tolerant than they are

'Sheesh, it's like being asked to be tolerant of people who believe in goblins.'

Why shouldn't we be tolerant of people who believe in goblins? We're tolerant of people that believe the goobledegook of New Labour.

I am an atheist and I am very tolerant of people's religions. I just don't believe in any of it.
I hate the way that religion is used as an excuse for hating/killing somebody else, but, on the other hand, I am a bit jealous of the feeling of belonging and certainty that people can get from their faith.

I'm not confusing anything! They are religious extremists - still requires religion for them to carry out their actions doesn't it?

Good people will always do good things.
Bad people will always do bad things.
It takes religion to make good people do bad things.

To me the whole point of being an atheist is respecting the beliefs of everyone else - whether they have beliefs or not, that is.

Having said that, I do feel very strongly that the laws of a nation should not be drawn up in such a way that the beliefs of one group or faith should be imposed on those who do not share those beliefs. I don't see any way of accomplishing this that does not involve laws being entirely secular - i.e. - no-one gets preferential treatment on the basis of their faith, or lack of it.

KnittingRocks - I would substitute ideology for religion in that last phrase - look at Stalin and Mao - but otherwise agree - and ideology would include religion.

which 'atheists'? atheism just means you don't believe in God - nothing more.
there is no single body of 'atheist' opinion, no hierarchy with a person in power to advocate for 'atheism' - so how can one say 'atheists' are intolerant??

surely no more true than saying 'people whose favourite colour is red' are intolerant?

I am an atheist, DH and DD are both Catholic. Their lives, their choice.
I don't think I am intolerant, I do think I am more rational than them though

He probably thinks all atheists are like Richard Dawkins!

I however am a very tolerant atheist.

BTW I wouldn't describe atheism as 'not believing in god'
I would describe it as 'believes that there is no god'
Subtle difference :)

You should know ivykate-you have seen some of the scathing (in some cases vitriolic)comments on MN!!
I never know why other people's beliefs or lack of beliefs upset others. Live and let live.
I dont think that Chris Pattern can generalise, lots of families have atheists and people with religious faith living side by side quite happily. He is however right that a significant number are intolerant.

Here is the article by the way let's see if I can link!

He says that secularists and atheists are aggressive and closed minded and the examples he eludes to are people writing books that are critical of religion and protesting against the pope.

Writing books and protesting peacefully about institutions with significant power in society....it's not really intolerance as we normally understand it. It's only unacceptable if you accept (as most people, atheists included used to) that it is rude to criticise religious ideas and religious leaders with the same level of rigor as other ideas.

It's the usual, asking for 'respect' which sounds reasonable enough, but meaning a special kind of respect for religion which announts to 'STFU' ... Which is a bit worrying as he is the chairman of the BBC.

It is quite common for religious people to say that non believers are intolerant simply because they don't go along with their beliefs. It's quite obviously bullshit! How many wars in the name of atheism are there?

agree with ivykaty