Chris Pattern says that "atheists are "intolerant" of religion."

[ivykaty44]

Is he correct? And should atheist be tolerant of religion?

I've always thought organised religion was more about power than anything else, controlling the masses and all that. I have no problem with people having "faith" in the same way I don't mind if people believe in any other fairy stories.

The sad face comes when they start killing each other and us non believers with them.

Wouldn't it be great if they all just stopped being daft and started being sensible.

I have to say I cannot think of a single instance where a group of athiests have attacked a place of worship, or where an athiest has physically attacked someone for believing in a god or other divine being. Usually when people attack religious people it seems to be because they think that they are worshipping the wrong god, or even just doing it wrong. Or they're simply racist arseholes.

But Christian festivals are themselves tagged on to festivals which predate the advent of Christianity to these shores, so I think the objection to atheists taking part in these things is a bit of a straw man, tbh.

On MN, and in real life, there are a very few very vocal atheists who use language that religious people object to, but shedloads of atheists who either don't engage or are actually very reasoned and thoughtful. But as with everything, it's the loud shouters who are perceived of as representative of the rest.

I'm an ex-catholic atheist - no gripes about my upbringing, save for the very skewed teaching of British history I got, but I find the current public whinging about "intolerance" of christianity and the pope at odds with my education as a Catholic - the NT is pretty clear about expecting and toleration persecution for your faith as a key element of the christian life.

tolerating. Bah.

Not coming across as christian doesn't mean you don't believe in god, Darth. You can be religious and vile, or atheist and vile, and vice versa.

The article in the OP apparently said that in real life (ie not MN) athiests are intolerant of religion.

I just don't see evidence that athiests are causing trouble in an organised way. Or even in a not very organised way. The EDL people are racist - that is why they are being vile. To say that some of them might be racist and this shows that athiests are perpetrating hate crimes against religious people seems a bit of a leap. Why overlook the obvious racist component? Do the EDL attack CofE people? No? So then their motivation isn't that they are athiests who are intolerant of religion.

Darth I imagine that there have been some unpleasant comments about muslim women's dress from christians and possibly those of other faiths as well? AFAIK athiests do not hold a monopoly on disliking some forms of dress that muslim women wear.

"To say that some of them might be athiest and this shows that athiests are perpetrating hate crimes against religious people seems a bit of a leap"

I'm finding this discussion, as an atheist, fascinating. I have no concerns about other people worshipping who they want to worship. I choose to worship no-one. That makes me wrong how exactly? Intolerant how???

I don't gang up with my fellow atheists and discuss how to tear down organised religion. I don't care about it, quite frankly. I would sooner stand and tell the tides to stop coming in...it would be equally pointless.

I have been a christian and have been involved in organised religion and I found, on the whole, that it was just as prone to negative behaviours as any other grouping of like-minded people.

The thing I like most about my atheism is that it's mine. I don't feel the need to share it, or inflict it on people. If it wasn't for this thread, you wouldn't know I was an atheist at all. I live my life according to my own compassionate code of conduct and I like to feel 'right' about what I do. I therefore treat others as I would like to be treated. That's the only 'christian' tenet I feel it necessary to follow.

Nowaynohow - We are ALL individuals who are ALL entitled to believe in/not believe in what we choose without derision.

No, really nobody, and certainly no institution is entitled to be protected from derision, mockery, sneer, snark etc...that is the price, and the beauty of living in a free society.

Of course there is a time and a place. It would be rude to go to a church wedding and start talking loudly about 'imaginary friends'. It would be rude to walk into a mosque with your shoes on and a picture of Mohammed on your t-shirt.

But there is no good reason why books and newspapers shouldn't contain pictures of Mohammed, why people shouldn't write jokes, songs, parodies and serious critical books about religions, or why people on a discussion forum like MN, which is irreverent about most things should be expected to be particularly respectful of religious language.

The idea that religions should be immune from derision is dangerous and scary.

Good points Himalaya. Free speech is free speech. But it doesn't mean that those who exercise it can necessarily describe themselves as "tolerant" simply by crying "free speech". Yes, I will not stop you saying it: but I would say that some of the extreme mockery and abuse on mn, for example, is not demonstrative of "tolerance". Say it: but don't describe yourself as tolerant in the same breath.

Huffy -- your atheism doesn't make you intolerant, any more than my Christianity does. Tis what you do with it

Gooseberry I am still interested in real life examples of intolerance shown by athiests, as per the OP.

I know that everyone would really like to talk about whatever it is they want to talk about but I am still interested in the point made in the OP. Mainly because for all the people agreeing that there is all this terrible intolerance, I have not seen one example of a real life situation where athiests have acted on religious intolerance.

It seems to me that this question isn't being answered because it hasn't actually happened. Where intolerance to religion is displayed, it is for motivations other than the perpetrator being an athiest.

I think mockery and abuse is demonstrative of intolerance. In addition some of these cases where Christianity is coming up against equality legislation, there seems to be an intolerance, an impatience, a feeling of extreme animosity against the Christian side of the argument. I think perhaps you yourself want to talk about something different - discrimination rather than intolerance

Please can you explain what the christian side of the argument is re equality legislation - why it is that religious organisations should be allowed an exemption from otherwise over-arching legislation.

Also please give examples in real life where athiests as a group and with that reason have acted in an intolerant manner towards religious groups.

I've just given you examples, sorry I don't know what you mean.

A number of cases have been well exercised and aired, so I'm sure you know what the arguments are.

I should say, I didn't realise there was an accusation that cohesive and organised groups of atheists have been roaming the country carrying out acts of intolerance. Who said that?

What examples?

My examples of intolerance towards my local Jewish community (the first examples that came to mind) were: A bomb that I heard go off, swastikas painted on bus stops, synagogues having to hire security guards.

Other posters raised people attacking mosques, abusing muslim women wearing certain clothes, and the divides in Scotland between protestant and catholic communities.

These are all good examples of religious intolerance, none of them are the work of gangs of athiests though. They seem to be committed by racists and people of other religions.

Please can you give some actual examples of religious intolerance in the UK perpetrated by athiests.

I didn't know there was an accusation of "gangs of atheists". I wonder if you are being disingenuous. You are creating a straw man argument, about gangs of atheists carrying out violent acts, whereas the complaint I understood we were talking about is a general and rising feeling of intolerance towards religion of all kinds, onto which this thread has bolted on a feeling of intolerance towards Christianity.

To be an atheist is to be a non-believer, surely: unless you detach yourself as an active atheist from other non-believers who are just, I don't know. Non believers. What's the difference? If you do that you're putting yourself in a group separate from other non believers. But I don't know on what grounds you would do that.

I am happy to agree that there are no gangs of atheists roaming the country carrying out violent acts. I don't think there are any gangs of Christians doing that. I believe that in the north of England there are rival gangs of Sikhs and Muslims who do engage in street violence against each other.

SardineQueen I can give historical examples of atheistic intolerance, which in my view is just another form of religion.

Karl Marx said "Religion the Opiate of the Masses".

Very widespread view in communist Russia and China in particular, Nazi Germany is another example.

I am an agnostic.

I was going to mention China etc etc but I thought we were focussing on the UK. Bebe I would just say, I don't think Hitler was an atheist. I SHOULD KNOW THIS sod it.

Religion is woo woo because it is fantasy fiction. Structure your life around what you want but don't think that gives you automatic rights to be treated above anyone else.

So you can't actually give an example of a time when athiests have demonstrated religious intolerance. While plenty of examples of religious intolerance have been raised, none of them are the fault of athiests.

There aren't any, are there. The idea that "athiests are intolerant of religion" as reported in the OP has no evidence to back it up.

Tell me why religious organisations should be exempt from equality legislation that everyone else has to adhere to.

Sometimes, particularly on threads like this, I think it's the brighter people who can engage in an exchange and the less well-informed who feel the need to resort to bullshit, crap, woo etc etc. There are exceptions to the rule but that's quite a strong sense I get.