Chris Pattern says that "atheists are "intolerant" of religion."

[ivykaty44]

Is he correct? And should atheist be tolerant of religion?

#"which 'atheists'? atheism just means you don't believe in God - nothing more.
there is no single body of 'atheist' opinion, no hierarchy with a person in power to advocate for 'atheism' - so how can one say 'atheists' are intolerant??

surely no more true than saying 'people whose favourite colour is red' are intolerant?#"

the same can be said of any religious group? i mean as a member of a religion with no hierachy, who speaks for me? within religious traditions there is a variety of practices and beliefs, yet they are referred to as a collective and there are organisations and think tanks who have somehow been iven the responsibility to speak for me, but none of the members of the religion i know have advocated this, it only the government which have.

It is interesting how different people have different perecpetions: I would have said I have noticed far more disrespect on Mumsnet to my "non" beliefs that I have in real-life.

Aspertions that someone who does not believe in (any) god cannot have "good" morals or values.

Aspertions that that "atheists" (as a homogenous entity) are not tolerant

I know many people in both real-life and on Mumsnet who are practicingChristians or Muslims - it makes no difference to what I think of them. They are friends because of who they are, not their religious beliefs.

I think it is the Hindu faith (or is Budhism?) that doesn't beleive in "tolerance" - because that implies that there is something to "tolerate" - which is itself a judgment.

Presumably the person who said this is talking about "real life" rather than posts on MN! I think it's reasonable to assume that people on MN who are vocal about religion being sky-fairies and so on don't actually gather outside their local church on a Sunday and shout this at the people going in!

In this country we have churches all over the shop, bells going bing bong at various points throughout the week, chiming celebrations or calling people to prayer. I have never noticed a church being picketed. We don't notice how christian this country is because we're used to it, but really it it. The national holidays are around christian religious festivals, yesterday the BBC seemed to be showing progs about Jesus more or less non stop. Songs of Praise is on the main national channel every Sunday, we have clergy in the house of lords who are contributing to how the country works and the head of state is head of the church. All of this stuff is there and happens and that's how it is.

In schools all children are supposed to take part in a daily act of broadly christian worship.

Christianity permeates this entire country, it really does. And yet there are calls of intolerance?

Intolerance might be more along the lines of a local Jewish newspaper being blown up, swastikas being daubed on bus stop and buildings in strongly Jewish areas, and synagogues having to hire security guards. I don't want to get into the politics - but that is religious intolerance.

Remind me what happens to christians in the UK to show that there is a lot of intolerance towards them?

Hecate: "In what way, gooseberry? What is an example of such hampering and confounding? - genuinely interested btw - I can't think of anything, nothing at all, particulary christian about this country that is detrimental to non christians. I'm really interested by that pov."

Yes I struggle a bit too but I think they are upset about faith schools. Also they disagree with marriage? and homosexual couples not being allowed to get married?

Look, I don't know tbh, but from the amount of whinging and abuse, there must be quite a lot.

Ah! good example. marriage. except now same sex marriage exists, only they call it civil partnership.

I am not sure why it isn't marriage, tbh. I suppose that is the best example isn't it? marriage is only man + woman = bible?

Hecate

Faith schools
Clergy in the house of lords
Being exempted from having to adhere to equalities legislation

Are 3 big issues to my mind.

I don't understand why Christian values are deemed worthless but the outward symbols of them are deemed desirable. It all seems very shouty and inconsistent sometimes.

Are we just talking CofE are are we including Catholicism, or are we talking all religions in the UK?

I haven't seen the article so I don't know what the person was talking about.

Of course clergy in the House of Lords do have an enormous impact on the lives of atheists. They have systematically managed to veto every single piece of equality or discrimination legislation introduced, and to maintain a legal code heavily in line with the Ten Commandments. They are always standing up and condemning other faiths, and their demands for persecution of non-believers ring perpetually in the ears.

Oh sorry, my mistake. They haven't and they don't. Oops.

it doesn't affect anyone if other people believe in God. So why sneer at them for it?

I don't put down religion except in discussions on religion. I certainly don't team up with fellow atheists to knock on doors and tell people what to believe. Nor do I think there should be reserved seats in the Lords for atheists.

To live in the UK and claim that Christianity doesn't affect atheists in their daily lives you'd have to be really stupid or dishonest. Which is it?

So you would be happy if the CofE types in the house of lords were all removed and replaced with senior figures from different religious communities? Genuine question.

The church is exempted from large parts of the equalities act, not because it was the right thing to do, but because they have a lot of power in the UK.

I do feel sorry for atheists having Christians knock on their doors. It must be traumatising having to say "no thank you".

We have lots of people knock on our door for all sorts of reasons. Perhaps it is an inner Christian strength and spirit that enables me to say "no thank you" without reaching for the smelling salts.

Those who think the special arrangements don't affect atheists will presumably be okay if we dispense with them starting tomorrow?

Oh wait no. We'd have that thread on MN and the religious people screamed in pain at the very idea.

Well no, because Christianity is the established faith of the UK. You know that?

When I was a girl a local christian group used to gather on the high street every saturday and shout preach at passers by (including little children) that they were going to burn in hell. They took turns - the men and male children one week, the females then next.

HOORAY for religious tolerance!!!!!

What special arrangements? How, specifically, do they affect you?

Faith schools I think you have a point over. Which other ones?

So you think that christianity is not tolerated in the UK, yet we have christian clerics involved in running the country?

Riiiiiight OK then.

Out of interest, can you give some specific examples of how this religious intolerance manifests itself in the UK? I cam given some examples of how in my lifetime the Jewish community in my locality has experienced intolerance. What are we talking about here that is being done to Christians?

Of course Christianity affects all, we are living in a Christian country, with a Christian culture and a Christian heritage.

That's free speech for you. When were you a girl? Do you see anything like that now?

I just love the way you pick out one bit of my post and then ask me if I am stupid or dishonest. When you totally ignore the other bits of my post.

Like where I said - "If their actions affect you - then fair enough. Object to their actions if those actions affect you or adversely affect others who have no choice in it. but to sneeringly refer to imaginary friends is totally, unforgiveably ignorant."

And where I said " It works both ways. Many religious people are intolerant of non-religious people and of people who believe in a different form of religion. This is equally wrong."

and where I said "Although, I don't recall from my history lessons, many wars, killings, imprisonments etc orchestrated and carried out by atheists. Seems to be those who believe in God who do most of the killing. I wonder why that is. When you consider how much love and peace and tolerace is preached, it seems odd how quickly people want to kill in the name of their religion."

and where I said "Many refer sneeringly to "superstition" and "imaginary friends" and imply that anyone who does believe in God is a moron. I'd call that intolerant."

The post read as a whole is totally different from reading that one part of it. The opinion appears different. did any of that matter to you? nooooooo, just ignore the post as a whole and grab a little bit of it, c&p it alone making it sound totally different and then ask ME if I'm stupid.

bravo.

What they were doing was intolerant.

I want to know what specific things people are talking about on this thread when they say that others are not tolerant of Christianity. What is it that is happening?

Hecate I don't think you're stupid or dishonest. It's abusive to say you are one or the other. Maybe she'll withdraw it.

Oh no, I don't want him to withdraw it I'm a big girl, I can take it.

It's just the c&p of a sentence, twisting it because when you read the whole of my post, it is totally different! it talks about the right to belive without mockery but also talks about the right of people to not be adversely affected by the ACTIONS of others. Belief v actions.

To grab a sentence that does not by itself represent my post and therefore my opinion and use it to, in a veiled way, call me stupid - is a rather surprising choice from a poster I have always thought to be intelligent.

Question:

What examples of intolerance towards christians are people talking about? I have given examples of things that have happened to our local Jewish community. Please can someone give examples of how this intolerance is manifesting itself in the UK at this time? Thank you