Chris Pattern says that "atheists are "intolerant" of religion."

[ivykaty44]

Is he correct? And should atheist be tolerant of religion?

Hecate I apologise for misunderstanding the main point of your post and for what I said to you. What I thought you meant does get said on here a lot and I just saw that bit and thought "here we go again" :(

I reserve the right to be really mean to someone else in a minute though :)

Say sorry 3 more times and buy me chocolate and I will forgive you.

Example of religious intolerance that exists today: the letter bombs sent to Neil Lennon and two others affiliated to Celtic. :(

Caveat: I am not a Celtic supporter. Being neither Cathlic or Protestant, I tend to (half) support whichver team is doing well or showing the better attitude. In the past that has been Celtic (the first of the two team to employ someone form the "other" faitg ) but this season it has been Rangers, thanks to Neil Lennon and John Reid continually whinging about referees and supposed bias against Celtic.

Were the bombs sent by athiests?

My understanding was that this thread was about intolerance shown by athiests towards the CofE.

Have I got that wrong? What are we actually talking about here?

No idea - I suspect that they were the act of lone nutter who was probably nominally Protestant.

But it is as relevant as using examples of intolerance towards Jewish communities.

I thought this thread was about intolerance in society, from athiests, towards christians?

AFAIK gangs of athiests are not carrying out hate acts against christians?

Christians are certainly carrying out hate acts against each other, and the muslim, jewish and other communities get a pretty rough time.

But where is the evidence of athiest intolerance towards christians?

I think I am actually agreeing with you: the examples that have been provided (by both of us) are examples of religious groups displaying intolerance towards each other - not of actions undertaken by the amorphous mass of "atheists" (which people struggle to define precisely because you can't define people by what they don't beleive in).

Richard Dawkins gets such publicty precisely because he is one of the few self-avowed atheists who is vociferous in his challenges of religious shibboleths. Most "atheists" really can't be faffed going around arguing against something that has no relevance to them. In the same way that they don't waste their energy arguing about the non existence of fairies.

I really should learn not to get drawn into such disucssions It has no bearing on my day-to-day life - although I could complain about the fact that the local catholic school (100% state funded) is a) half empty and b) 90% full of sikhs and muslims anyway, while ds' school just along the road is so bursting at the seams that they no longer have a library and he can't get the two hours of PE that he is supposed to get as of right. So religion does impact on my life after all!

Religion impacts on my life with the state school situation as well.

On the whole though I am not that fussed by the fairly inoffensive brand of religion that is the majority in the UK. I don't feel that the CofE do much harm, although there are some things I would like changed.

I am interested though as the OP spoke of athiests being intolerant towards religion which seems to be interpreted as CofE on this thread. I just don't see any evidence for it.

Well, given that Chris Patten, who wrote the original article that triggered this thread, is Catholic, it does seem strange.....

I don't think there is any evidence except for MN where some posters show no respect for any other views-they are right and they are right for the entire world! (It must be nice to be so sure!!)

I'm a very tolerant atheist. You can believe any form of bizarre crap you like - I just don't think I should have to subsidise it or have it forced down my children's throats until they are old enough to make decisions about it.

To be honest, my description of tolerant doesn't include mockery and abuse of the subject. So I think your description of yourself is a little overgenerous, chocolate.

"I am interested though as the OP spoke of athiests being intolerant towards religion which seems to be interpreted as CofE on this thread. I just don't see any evidence for it."

I think this is true, that is how it's been interpreted. For example, the poster who spoke about the street corner evangelists however many years ago could have spoken about much more recent and even current Islamic extremist preaching, but didn't. For example, there is controversy surrounding a number of cases of apparent double standards between religions which no doubt will raise the cry of Daily Mail! You Lose! For example, in a Christian country some people feel aggrieved that their festivals are being demoted in the name of equality.

Ah now did I say I was referring to christianity - I could have meant the moonies, for example. But it all seems bizarre if you are in the other camp. I'm sure to a religious person choosing not to have a God would seem odd too. :)

I took "bizarre crap" to mean all religion.

Lovely.

I actually mean fervent fundamentalists of any religion to be clear. I have absolutely no problem with whatever you believe - honestly I don't. Some of it seems very odd to me - within all religions (and actually rabid secularists can be pretty barking IME :) )

It's the arrogance that gets me really the 'we are right and you are wrong and it is our DUTY to convert you' brigade (on all sides) which annoys me if I'm honest. I'm sure my way is not the only one that works, I'm sure my beliefs are not always correct, but I won't mock your religion (unless you are actually a scientologist in which case I won't be able to help myself) so long as you in turn respect my right to be an atheist who is more interested in science than an omnipotent one.

I have never come across people preaching any faith in the way that those people used to. I have come across people on the street who wanted to talk about different religions / had stalls with leaflets, but nothing like they used to be.

Evangelism is about converting I think? They did not want people to convert as they do not accept people joining, it is a closed sect. What they did was stand in a big line and you had to walk past them all, with one at the front bellowing about how we (including me aged about 6) were all going to BURN.

Now I have seen stories of extremist preaching by Muslims but they don't tend to do it in the middle of the High Street on a Saturday in a big gang. That I've noticed.

That's by the by anyway.

So we are talking about athiests being intolerant of all religions now are we, not just CofE?

EXAMPLES PLEASE. I have given some good examples of religious intolerance, as have some other posters. The religious intolerance examples so far have been down to other religions and politics, that sort of thing. Examples where athiests have been the ones on the offensive please.

If people get some happiness from following woo-woo, good for them. The problems seem to start when they try to force the rest of us to follow their woo-woo too.

Nobody should generalise about one particular group or the other - there are many atheists who are intolerant of religion and many religious people who are intolerant of atheism/other religions.

The key is that we are ALL individuals who are ALL entitled to believe in/not believe in what we choose without derision.

Well yes that is true noway.

The article in the OP seems to posit though that athiests as a group are intolerant of religion, and some posters on the thread agree. I would like them to give me examples of how this religious intolerance by athiests is manifesting itself in the UK.

Gooseberry, you are absolutely joking that there are no religious people in this world who kill other people because of a difference in religion . Persecution of people because of their religion by others of a different religion happens in many countries around the world - I can't believe you can honestly deny this?!

And I didn't mention Islam, you did. Not sure what words you were trying to put in my mouth but no, I wasn't talking solely about Islam at all.

Is it really groups of athiests who are attacking mosques and giving grief to muslin women on the street?

Are groups of athiests organising to do this? I must admit I thought that these sort of attacks were down to racism and dipshits like the (self-proclaimed Christian) BNP. Rather than gangs of athiests.