Church of england schools - proposal to admit more non-cofE children.......

[Icoulddoitbetter]

here

I'm not religious, and my child is not yet of school age so it's not something I've needed to think about for mysef.

But, I know a family where the parents are athiests who attend their local church weekly, read lessons, had their daughters christened and wear crosses around thier necks, just to get their children into the local church school, and this I have a very big problem with. I have no problem with children being brought up in a faith but not when the parents teaching that belief themselves have no belief in it whatsoever, it jsut seems wrong!

So if this new proposal stops the need for such behaviour then great (and the very mean part of me is secretly hoping the children above above get bumped off the list to make room for the non-cofe children in the community, whochaven't faked Christianity for two years, sorry.....!)

Oh dear Gooseberrybushes, you have got your snitty hat on today, haven't you

But state schools aren't supposed to be selective gooseberry. And actually what this would mean is that I would have exactly the same choice of schools as everyone else in my area, rather than be limited to those who don't select their pupils on ground of attendance at church.

Where I used to live in London, the situation was far, far worse - there were 8 schools within a 2 mile radius and all but one of those were faith schools.

If you take faith out of schools you will still have the same parents with foresight, drive, attention to detail, ambition and you could get rid of the hypocrisy. Those parents will still want to educate their dc, they would then be better spread and more schools could do better

Ought and should and supposed don't come into what I'm saying. What is, and what will happen, that's all.

It's all the same to me.

No you won't you'll have anybody that wants to go there and lives locally.

Faith selection gives places to people with the greatest drive, ambition, foresight etc etc.

Where there is a choice between faith and non-faith, that kind of selection is probably "better" (iyswim) than by payment.

Yes, might not a bit of even-ing out be a good thing? Better than having some really dreadful schools and some very elitist/discriminatory ones.

That's a description basedon the notion you seem have of people with a choice and NOT the very many people who have one local faith based school and no other.

The make up of people in my village will not be changed by the school. It will still be a MC / student enclave with the same old faces.

Elsewhere there are choices; choices are good. When there is a choice I am not concerned.

Besides, i don;t want kids educated to be hypocrites. Our brand of faith is very much one of faith in action and I would absolutely not choose a school where I knew there was strong competition and attracted the fake-faith brigade. I'd far rather they attened lcoally and we tryed to pull standards (and this was something we've done in the past, before we moved, and the school I volunteer at now was chosen in great part because it has a less lucky intake). I don't understand how a Christian could choose a school that encouraged hypocrisy and lying anyway.

And interestingly 500 kids at the school, maybe ten at the Church children's service this morning. By setting up to prioritise Church beliefs over thgose of the wider lcoal population, they're clearly missing the bigger picture.

Yes, I don't mind a bit of evening out. But given the primary NC, I predict comprehensive mediocrity rather than across the board raising of standards.

Yes it applies only where there is a choice.

Bollocks, gooseberry. I have huge drive, ambition and foresight, I'm just not prepared to sit through a load of drivel every sunday morning to get my child into the best primary school in the area. And I shouldn't have to.

Something else i;ve noticed (as someone in the field) is that faith schools are generally (obviously not always) terrible for kids with an SEN.

I thought Jesus welcomed all kids? Valued us all equally?

So why is this- is it because faith school really is code for just selective academic eduation managing to fileter the unwanted out mroe effectively than a standard state would manage?

Luckily we have an excellent Vicar who over rides every attempt to find excuses not to admit non statemented kids with SEN, even when theya re very local indeed, but without him there'd be nobody with any form of additional need there at all.

Well that's just you.

Do you think everyone is like you?

That was for Christina.. I wasn't quick enough.

And no need to say bollocks, especially when it's plainly not.

And also not everybody CAN sit through Churc every week. Nurses ? shift workers? self employed people? carers?

So pretty mean to exclude them on the basis on earning a living or fulfilling their responsibilities, no?

Faith selection gives places to people with the greatest drive, ambition, foresight etc etc.

Quite a statement, so faith selection process sorts out those people with the greatest drive and ambition, foresight etc etc and gives a school place to their children.

So that means that those that aren't selected for the faith schools do not have such a great drive, ambition and foresight for their dc?

Are you arguing with me Peach? I'm not arguing with you. Don't know where you got that idea from.

I am posting opinions on a thread about issues raised. Not any anyone in particular.

Yes, on average, it probably does, in areas where there is a choice and the faith school is the one with the best results, which is very often/usually? is.

I live in the exceptional area where the infant junior faith school is not really so good and the local infant and junior combined is excellent with outstanding results, the local faith secondary is the bottom of the pile of the four, by a distance and is always under subscribed each year. In fact there are another two catholic schools for junior in the are also struggling with one going into special measures - so it makes me wonder where all the drive and ambition went with the religious parents

dd school is cofE im not religious at all and the school acccet that we got in on the bases after appeal that is the only school in the village next one is 11 miles away

but they do learn about other relgions and i accepted that means she will go to the odd church service its balanced out by home life and that she can ask what ever she likes and understands differnt eole believe differnt things

oh and i dont go to church either .dont believe in it .But to me it was important that she went for social reasons eg school clubs mixing with the other 7 local kids

To dinky who told me not to judge and made the comment about what's wrong with wearing a cross, it may be a fashion statement. The only reason the couple I mnetion have annoyed me so much is I know for a fact that they are athiest because they've told me, they believe not one jot in any kind of god. Wearing a cross is just another calculated effort to prove to their local vicar that they are God faring Christians.

I have no problem with children attending a faith school if it is the only option and they are taught a balanced view preferably by the school but more likely by the parents, as faith schools will obviously teach within a religious framework.

I'm sure it's completely unworkable, but faith schools should be in addition to good quality schools in an area so there is a real choice.

They are at the other schools of course They've selected the best school available for their child.

Apparently, when the factors of selection and parental input are accounted for in results statistics, faith schools on average underperform by around five per cent, possibly because of the time devoted to non academic religious activities.

That's how much difference the parents can make. It doesn't apply to all schools or all parents.

Why would faith schools get better results?

So believing in a God actually iincreases drive and ambition . I think not.