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vegan parents to be prosecuted

115 replies

HecateTheCrone · 29/03/2011 16:29

vegans in dock over baby's death

A tragic story. Clearly these parents did not intend any harm to their baby. They must be devastated. However, does this mean that parental choices that have the potential to cause harm to the baby will see them jailed if something does happen to the baby? Smoking, drinking, etc, as well as diet. Is this a good thing? bad thing?

OP posts:
seeker · 01/04/2011 06:06

The baby didn't die of a vitamin deviciency. It died of an untreated infection.
The breastfeeding, the veganism and the vitamin deficiencies are all complete red herrings.

Bubbaluv · 01/04/2011 06:21

It sounds like vitamin deficiency contributed to the baby's general state of poor health though - or am I reading that wrong?

GotArt · 01/04/2011 06:27

That's what I thought too. If you aren't getting appropriate nutrition, then your body can't fight infection.

Otherside Would it be safe to say that the doctor that saw them at 9 months should have made them follow up after that visit though seeing as the child was already demonstrating nutritional problems, iyswim. Can a doctor call child services or something to report neglect or does it come under doctor/patient confidentiality?

GotArt · 01/04/2011 06:28

Re first comment... you don't have to be vegan to be vitamin deficient though is what I wanted to add.

seeker · 01/04/2011 06:32

It might have done.

But you notice that it says "died with vitamin deficiencies" It also might have 'died with pierced ears" or "died with a yellow jumper on" Doesn;t mean those factors contributed to it's death, though

And I do question whether the mother's diet could have had such a dignificant impact so early. Seriously malnourished women can successfully feed babies - they just become even more malnourished themselves - the babyy takes what it needs.

Any article which presents information in such an unreliable way in one area should not be tusted in any other.

thumbwitch · 01/04/2011 06:40

To be fair, seeker, the mother may have been B12 deficient as it is a common deficiency in vegans who don't go to the docs to get their injections or supplement. And if she was deficient in B12, then it's likely the baby would have been as well of course. Not sure how she was Vit A deficient though - beta carotene is present in an awful lot of veg and fruit and gets converted to Vit A in the body, so that's a bit of an oddity. Vit D would have made more sense.

juuule · 01/04/2011 07:55

"And I do question whether the mother's diet could have had such a dignificant impact so early. "

It seems it can do. From the link I posted earlier :Infancy: A critical time

exoticfruits · 01/04/2011 08:14

A agree that the vegan part was a 'red herring'-the DC was ill and they did nothing about it. She needn't have died-it was neglect.

Bubbaluv · 01/04/2011 08:43

Why is it only relevant to report the precise cause of death?
If the baby was malnourished then it would have suffered as a result whether or not that directly lead to it's death. Failing to provide proper nutrition to your child is neglect is it not? And if you are the only source of nutrition for your child then you bloody well better make sure you are getting all that is required.
Babies and children die of neglect all the time and the papers report that the injuries they sustained regardless of whether they were fatal.

sakura · 01/04/2011 09:39

Just want to echo what others have said that this is NOT a breastfeeding or vegan issue.

I exclusively breastfed mine way beyond 8 months because they loved breastmilk so much and refused solids. They just kept gaining weight. What is good about breastfeeding is that if a child is ill with a tummy bug and they can still stomach breastmilk even when they can't down solids, so a breastfed baby may not lose weight in mild illnesses such as the flu whereas a weaned child definitely will.

Don'T know if you've noticed but I'm pro-BF and these anti-BF slants added on to random stories really get my goat.

sakura · 01/04/2011 09:40

It was neglect in this case.

Skinit · 01/04/2011 09:46

Why are people saying the vegan and breastfeeding have nothing to do with the issue of this baby's sad death?

The baby was malnourished....only fed on breastmik!

sieglinde · 01/04/2011 09:49

Corydoras, a wonderfully French viewpoint, but not necessarily so. There used to be more Vitamin B12 available in plant foods before pesticides etc. It is however true that early hominids seem to have been omnivores, and they also seem to have scraped by without antibiotics or plasma tvs. Doesn't mean we should or must.

I am among those who bf a very plump child exclusively to 9 months. She went on bf till 3.5 years, though on a mixed diet.

And vitamin deficiencies do predispose infants to infections and tend to make recovery slower, increasing the risk of complications.

So you are all wrong Grin

thumbwitch · 01/04/2011 09:57

There did NOT used to be more B12 available in plant foods!! It is about the only vitamin that is not found in usable form in any plant food; there is a similar molecule in some seaweeds but it is debatable whether or not it is available to us. Vitamin B12 comes from animal produce only - but that includes microorganisms, bacteria etc. No plants!

sakura · 01/04/2011 10:00

Skint, because the baby needed medical help and didn't get it.

It probably would have died earlier if it wasn't being breastfed.

Skinit · 01/04/2011 10:22

But it was malnourished. Because it wasn't fed anything other than breastmilk...which may not have been of decent quality as the Mother was a Vegan.

Skinit · 01/04/2011 10:26

The baby had a vitamin deficiency...which was the cause of it's death...so how was the fact that it's parents were vegan and it was only fed it's Mothers milk irrelevant?

seeker · 01/04/2011 10:27

The milk may not have been "of decent quality" but not because the mother was a vegan. It is perfectly possible to be a fit and healthy vegan. If the mother was malnourished it's because she was a crap vegan.

The vegan thing is irrelavent. These two sheould clearly not have been allowed to look after a kitten, never mind a baby, but it's the clay and cabbage leaves to treat an infection that killed the child, not the breatmilk or the veganism. Or the home education.

Skinit · 01/04/2011 10:29

I agree seeker.....she may have been a crap vegan...but it was more than likely her Veganism combined with not giving the baby anything other than her milk which caused the death. ...so in this case it' not irrelevant.

seeker · 01/04/2011 10:32

It wasn't her being a vegan. It may possibly have been her being malnourished.

But she could have been malnourished because she ate nothing but Haribo.

Being a vegan does not mean that you are malnourished. Saying you are a vegan sometimes means you have an eating disorder, however, and a woman with an eating disorder is going to struggle to produce enough milk to feed a baby adequately.

But the bottom line is that the baby died of an untreated infection.

thumbwitch · 01/04/2011 10:33

I think the point that the mother is "a vegan" is not totally irrelevant but it needs to be qualified. The milk may have been substandard and it probably contributed to the baby's vitamin deficiency which would have contributed to its untimely demise - but it's not due to "veganism" - it's due to the mum being "a crap vegan with weirdy ideas on how to treat bronchitis". Just her being "a vegan" is not the cause.

Skinit · 01/04/2011 10:36

But in this case SHE was malnourished because she was a vegan...not because she was poor, or ate nothing but bacon or whatever....but because she was a vegan.

If she had eaten nothing but Haribo then the news would have said "Woman who lived on Haribo prosecuted over baby malnourishment case"
Or something....but she was a poorly malonourished vegan...not anything else. So it mentioned her Veganism.

The bottom line is that the baby got an infection which it was ill equiped to fight because it was malnourished...BECAUSE it's Mother was a vegan.

thumbwitch · 01/04/2011 10:41

no, because her mother was a crap vegan.

sieglinde · 01/04/2011 11:00

It's the microorganisms that form on root hairs that used to provide Vitamin B12. allegedly. So they would be ingested with root veg, one presumes. But this is all an assumption.

seeker · 01/04/2011 11:10

I feel like Brian Cox, when asked why people believe in astrology. He said "Because they aren't very good at thinking"

She wasn't malnourished because she was a vegan, she was malnourished because she didn't eat properly.

A person who is an omnivore but chooses to eat nothing but Haribo isn;t malnourished because she is an omnivore, she is malnourished because she has a crap diet. Just like this woman was.

ANd anyway the poor little baby died of an untreated infection.