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Explicit Sex Ed material for 5 years olds!!!

370 replies

vintageteacups · 09/03/2011 10:02

sex ed for 5 years olds

I think this is extremely wrong on so many levels. Would you seriously like your 5 yr olds to be told about sex like this???

OP posts:
foxter · 15/03/2011 14:35

The OP's question was "Would you seriously like your 5 yr olds to be told about sex like this???" and my answer to that is no, I would not.

However, my DS's are not being told about sex like that (talk about cherry-picking!). I am more than happy for my DS's (4 and 6) to be taught SRE according to the guidelines that were cut and pasted from the NCB web site, and to be honest, I struggle to see why anyone would have a problem with it. At this age, there is nothing covered by the guidelines that I haven't already mentioned at home. When they're a bit older though, I'll be happy to have the schools help, as there are bound to be areas that I cannot cover comprehensively myself.

majordanjarvis · 15/03/2011 14:52

I'd be happy for you to teach my daughter, BillieK - I'm also curious to hear what seeker found so complaint-worthy about your post.

seeker · 15/03/2011 15:24

What, apart from the grammar, spelling, style and bizarre use of capital letters, you mean?

exoticfruits · 15/03/2011 17:00

Apart from all that, I wouldn't hold up the treatment of Asian and Eastern European girls, by their families, as fine example.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 15/03/2011 17:53

I'm another one who would be very concerned if you were teaching PSHE to my boys as well!!

ilovesprouts · 15/03/2011 18:01

no point in teaching/telling my son hes 5 in dec he wont understand anyhow

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 15/03/2011 18:10

and I think you really ought to get your facts right - \link{http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-do/data-and-evidence/health-evidence-network-hen/publications/hen-summaries-of-network-members-reports/what-are-the-most-effective-strategies-for-reducing-the-rate-of-teenage-pregnancies\Eastern Europe has higher rates of teenage pregnancy than Western Europe} (unless you're going to tell me that WHO is lying.....

Interesting article here \link{http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/big-question/the-big-question-why-are-teenage-pregnancy-rates-so-high-and-what-can-be-done-about-it-1623828.html\which includes a look at Holland and it's approach and apparent success}.

I love sprouts - look at Seekers poster at Wed 09-Mar-11 10:42:03 (a little way into the thread) - are you honestly telling me that your child wouldn't understand that?

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 15/03/2011 18:15

"I am afraid I have personaly been told by several girls in different schools (where I taught) that their only opton is to get pregnant and get a social security flat! Those girls were anywhere between 13 and 15 years old. Sadly that is exactly what they did as soon as they finished the school. "

And you think that's because of sex education? I think you have an extremely limited grasp of what makes these girls have that attitude to life if you believe that the reason they think like that is because they had sex education earlier than you think they should!!!

You think these girls leave school with such low aspirations towards life because they were told about sex to early????????

pointythings · 15/03/2011 21:30

Am with you there, Baroque - these girls see having a baby as the only way out of a miserable and hopeless home life - not because they have been taught about sex too early, but because they see their parents (if still together) stuck in dead-end jobs and living ontax credits because employers won't pay a living wage. They see a house of their own moving ever further out of reach as deposits increase and house prices remain stubbornly high. They see university tuition fees that will plunge them into an intimidating amount of debt if they aspire to anything better. Is it any surprise they choose the path of least resistance?

At the root of the UK's problems are two things:

  1. the enormous gap between rich and poor, which is based in the remnants of the class system and in the devotion of successive governments of all colours to the idea that free market capitalism will solve everything, and
  2. the idea that sex is dirty and not something you talk about as a family.

Both of those things will take many more generations to change. Sad

ilovesprouts · 15/03/2011 21:40

everybodys got there own opinion ,each to there own i say ,batc no he would not he dont talk etc !!

seeker · 16/03/2011 08:09

Some things should not be matters of opinion, though.

cory · 16/03/2011 08:16

"So if we are happy that the puberty age is 12 the sex eduacation is appropriate at 10."

And who is happy that "the puberty age is 12"? You cannot possibly be a PHSE teacher, please tell me you are not!

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 16/03/2011 08:52

I'd have been VERY happy if the puberty age was 12...........I started when I was 10 Hmm.

exoticfruits · 16/03/2011 09:04

I was very late at 14yrs -I don't think that we can take a general age.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 16/03/2011 09:08

exactly exoticfruits.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 16/03/2011 09:11

DSis was teenage mother. She didn't get "social security" flat (whatever that is) - she and her partner bought their own flat house when they were 19 & 20.

Please don't stereotype all teenage mothers thanks.

Prymface (promoting respect for young mothers) on Twitter is interesting and informative (NB - not an ad & nothing to do with me - I had my first at 34)

I do overall agree with you pointythings about the cycle of poverty and low expectations having more of an impact on life choices. Education is the key here - not just sex ed but all education...

exoticfruits · 16/03/2011 09:20

We have a friend of the family who got her first boyfriend at 15, her family didn't approve because he was 20. The have been happily married for at least 30 yrs and one DD is a vet and the other a teacher. It never pays to stereotype.

prettybird · 17/03/2011 11:13

I've just seen the new "Sexual Health and Relationships" teaching pack that Glasgow is rolling out.

I am totally happy with it. It is 95% exactly the same as what the school had previously been doing as "Personal and Social Development". However, the fact that they have put "Sexual Health" into the title has provoked outrage - yet if they hadn't, they would have been accused of doing "sneeking in" sex education.

The only real change at an infant school level is that they introduce all body parts' names at P1 (= reception) level. SO while they are talking about head, leg, foot, they will also - in passing - teach the correct names for "sexual bits", ie penis and vulva.

The research behind this is to ensure that the children have a common vocubulary. Froma child protection perspective, abuse has been missed because a teacher hasn't picked up on the innoicuous vocabulary that a child might use (eg, "Uncle Jo keeps stroking my bunny").

That's it. All the rest of the education - integrated into every day teaching (which is why the primary school insisted on having all the teachers trained in the new teaching pack, rather than just having 6, as suggested by the Education dept) is about relationships and being confident and secure in them.

It's P3 (= Y2)before they even cover "where humans come from" - and at that stage it is as simple as "from your mummy's tummy". We asked what would happen if a kid then asked how the baby had got into the tummy - and they said that they would be guided by the children - eg. "That's a good question, how do you think?" - and may even simply say "that's something we will talk about later".

As part of the same curriculum, in P3 they are also looking at bullying, how to deal with it and their responsibilites towards other when involved in bullying sitation, as well as postive attributes of relationships and how to manage feelings (like it is OK to be angry or upset - but not to take it out on others).

The point is that it is all age appropriate.

In answer to Majordanjarvic' somewhat assinine comparison with driving lessons , there is a grain of truth in what he said - only it makes the eaxct opposite point to the one he was trying to make. As soon as ds could walk, I was teaching him about traffic and how to be safe - he'll only actually drive a car when it is legal to do so, but he has to live ina world where traffic impacts upon his life and he has to be aware of how to deal with it. So we (dh and I) encourage him in small steps to become aware of road conditions and to develop his independence. He's now 10 and this morning he cycled to school on his onw - but we will cycle home with as the traffic coming home is still a bit dangerous).

In the same way, he needs to develop an awareness of healthy relationships and what they involve incldung sex as he grows up - but I would hope that he won't actually lose his virginity until he is fully mature and loves the person he is with.

FWIW (not that it is really relevant): I only lost my own virginity when I was nearly 22, although had done plenty of "fumbling" before then. But that is due in a large part of the open way my parents talked to me - not everyone was/is so fortunate.

Interestingly the school said that the only time they have had problems with "sex education" was from the kids that were withdrawn from the P7 sex education classes who then peddled straight mistruths in the playground, to the extent that the head teacher had 7 girls in tears at her door, thinking that what these ignorant misguided children had told them was fact :( (What was said was apparently so shocking, the head teacher wouldn't repeat it to us) That's what ignorance can lead to :(

Cessna · 17/03/2011 16:30

Oh grow up - 40 years ago, sunshine, it was the age of 'Flower Power' and the Hippies.....we were having a great time - and NO certainly weren't 'scared of sex'....Honestly - you'd think you 25 year olds had invented it. Sorry - we were first.

But in all honesty I really do think you should take a step back and just think about what is being proposed here. I'd be extremely unhappy at this graphic and detailed info being given to my children at aged 5; obviously I don't have 5 year olds now - but were I to be still in my 20s I'd really think that this is so squalid, and sordid, and degrading - and FORCING young children to grow up much too soon. Is that what you all really want ? For pity's sake, at the age of 5 most of them still believe in Father Christmas !!!

Take a step back - and think seriously; you are being asked to approve sex education far more appropriate to older children. Ask yourselves honestly - WHY do you want your kiddies to lose their innocence so quickly. How many of you approve of the way Suri whatshername is being pushed into being a 15 year old - and she's what - 4 years old ?

Please stop being so frightfully 'liberal' and 'open minded' about this; what's being suggested really is wrong, and immoral - and isn't necessary.

As for teenage pregnancy rates; let's not confuse the two subjects. Teenage pregnancy rates are high simply because most young girls have a pretty good idea how to use the system, get the free housing, and the benefits - with no long term thoughts for the future of any of their children. Look at the disgusting two-legged 'thing' (so-called man) can't remember his name - how many young women has he made pregnant ? How many children has he fathered ? You cannot tell me that the young women involved with him have no idea what he is like ? You should be asking yourselves why don't these young girls have more self-respect for themselves and steer clear of feckless scum like that young man....

prettybird · 17/03/2011 16:44
Confused

If you bother to read the thread, you will see that (contrary to the sensationalism of the DM article) what is proposed is not aimed at 5 year old and is indeed age appropriate.

exoticfruits · 17/03/2011 20:02

I can't think that anyone seriously believes that this happens in schools with 5yr olds!!

SpaceAge · 18/03/2011 01:14

ERRRRR, EXCUSE ME LADIES BUT AREN'T YOU MISSING THE POINT HERE. ITS NOT ABOUT 5-9 YEAR OLDS LEARNING GENTLY ABOUT THE BASICS OF SEX, ITS THEM LEARNING ABOUT - ANAL SEX - MASTERBATION - ORAL SEX - PROSTITUTION THAT I BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING TO COME TO TERMS WITH. OR DONT YOU MIND YOUR SEVEN YEAR OLD LEARNING ABOUT THAT???

mathanxiety · 18/03/2011 04:40

Pointythings, your posts are excellent here. And I think your pessimism is warranted.

seeker · 18/03/2011 06:31

SHOW ME SOMEWHERE THT 7 YEAR OLD ARE BEING TAUGHT THAT STUFF SPACEAGE AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT!

Sorry for shouting - but I think SpaceAge must be a bit hard of hearing.

exoticfruits · 18/03/2011 07:22

Good grief SpaceAge! OF COURSE THEY ARE NOT. I really get so angry about this. Your DCs school will tell you what they teaching 5 yr olds, 7 yrs old etc. Go in and ask them. I bet you they will be amazed at what you think!!Do som e of you ever talk to your schools or do you just rely on DM?