Shit, it's really kicking off in Egypt....

[headfairy]

watching reuters footage coming in, they've got tear gas and the police are shooting protesters now. Bloody terrifying!

exactly what am saying. Am glad you see it this way. Islam is "just" a religion. The plight of its many diverse peoples is not different from that under soviet iron curtain communism.
We are not backward because we are muslim.
We are just oppressed by kleptomaniac dictators. Islamist movements are traditionally just the only "legitimate" way of showing discontent. Its a political movement born from discontent and historically the only way, post the colonialist era to exist on the political scene.

Please please open your eyes and hearts see that muslims around the world are no different from you. some are bigots, some are secular, most are just trying to get by in a harsh economic reality with the added burden of antiquated western sponsored corrupt governments.

that video on youtube has me in tears every time. powerful stuff.

I would be inclined to be a bit more sympathetic towards you Slim22, if you stopped bringing religion into a political situation!

I'm actually quite moved today.

Over the weekend our company decided to close our call centre in Cairo for safety reasons and move the work back to the EU until the dust settles.

Today we've found a lot of staff turning up to the office wanting to work. They're desperate not to lose the business we've put over there in the last year. They've packed clothes, food and are prepared to stay in the office for days!

And in the UK we skip work if there's a couple of cm's of snow.

Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure its not all too late. I think a lot of our customers will be nervous and may pull the plug anyway.

mummie, this is what am trying to say

Slim22, more religious stuff, I am not interested personally, you may get more support in the religious section.

mummie are you blind and deaf or just plain naive?
shame on you for trying to stir this up

oh dear Slim22, you and your link all mention religion.

You seem to be attempting to project on to me what you are in fact doing and feeling.

mummie am not projecting anything.
I AM talking about the elephant in the room, you are trying to ignore it.

slim22 - where are you from, are you muslim Egyptian? Would be interesting to get the POV of someone from there.

slim, are you trying to get across that Egypt is not having much support from around the world because people have bigoted ideas about Islam/Muslims? This is what I understand from the 2nd paragraph of your post (10.39). If not, I apologise.

We are just oppressed by kleptomaniac dictators. Islamist movements are traditionally just the only "legitimate" way of showing discontent. Its a political movement born from discontent and historically the only way, post the colonialist era to exist on the political scene.

That's not bringing religion into it (although it is in there anyway), mummiehunnie, just trying to explain the context, specifically that Islamist movements became the only means of showing dissent, so they are supported even when the main grievances are political and when most people are more secular.

I think you are spectacularly missing the point and being very rude to slim22, actually.

Slim's personal attack on me was deleted by mnhq, and I am the spectacularly rude one, (hmm) OOOOKKKKaaayyyy

Didn't see it, as it was deleted, but yes, you started it.

ooookkkkayyyyyy, I started "IT" ? Does 2IT" have a name?

"IT"

MummieHunnie - I don't understand what point you keep banging on about in regards to Slim22 who has actually contributed some interesting and valid points. you can't keep 'religion' out of what's going on in Egypt.

If you want to discuss religion who is stopping you from doing so?

I said earlier in the day I personally don't want to get involved in discussing religion with regards to a political situation, I have every right to not want to discuss something I don't want to discuss, attempting to put words in my mouth and abussing me with personal attacks is no way to carry on, and looses my respect to any poster who behaves that way .

Oh please don't have this descend into a bunfight... This was otherwise an interesting thread.

I think the religious angle has been misrepresented by some (but not all) media outlets. As previous posters have pointed out, this isn't a fight for Sharia law, it's a fight for the restoration of the democratic process.
The role of the Muslim Brotherhood has (I think) confused this issue. I suppose their name hardly helps. I can't say I know too much about them but for now, they seem to be calling for unity amongst all Egyptians, and are asking their supporters not to engage in violence. I find it interesting that they have nominated el-Baradei to negotiate on their behalf as he is known to be secular.

Oh FFS, why is it that flaming religion has to come into anything?

I saw Slim's initial comment, but couldn't be bothered to reply as I thought it irrelevant. TBH, none of her posts made any sense to me at all.

Religion has nothing to do with anything of the current situation in Egypt. The status quo has been maintained by the military through control, manipulation, the use of espionage, and propaganda designed to scare the population and the world at large into allowing Mubarak PLC to thrive. The lack of threat to a neighbouring country that has powerful friends also helps keep HRH Mubarak in the life to which he has become awfully well accostumed.

IF religion had anything to do with anything, the christians in egypt would be leading a better life than their muslim neighbours, surely?

It is a military government, it doesn't do freedom, it doesn't do relaxed, democracy, or inclusive politics. It does oppression, the running down of public services, the dumbing down of citizens until they are too uneducated to demand any better.

It makes it extremely difficult/inconvenient to travel, to communicate with the outside, you have to pay a relative fortune to have a phone that can have web access.

Let's leave religion out of this, it is really nothing to do with the state of democracy in Egypt.

But if Mubarak goes then LittleMiss and the people gtt a chance to elect their government - who is in the wings waiting to take over? Who would be the most likely candidate?

lmhf, I think that people assume that just because Mubarak is "pro-West" and well regarded in international circles; any movement to oust him (by a predominantly Muslim population) will have a religious motive.
It is a completely incorrect notion, but understandable nonetheless.