Shit, it's really kicking off in Egypt....

[headfairy]

watching reuters footage coming in, they've got tear gas and the police are shooting protesters now. Bloody terrifying!

LittleMiss - your thinking about the fanaticism being defused by the fall of these regimes is an interesting thought.

I'm just wondering (and worrying) whether it is the fanatics who fomented this and whether they are waiting to take control.

Its hard to know who is leading this, or whether it is truely spontaneous and who ultimately will take charge. Clearly there are a lot angry unemployed young people in these countries but that is just the fuel for the fire.

The question who provided the spark to set the fire off and who is now sat enjoying the warmth of the flames.

NO, not at all, sure the Muslim Brotherhood have had a vested interest, as have every citizen, and they have been the ones to fuel protests in the past, but this has come as a result of what happened in Tunisia.

This is an action of the people, the chaps that arranged the protests set for April 6th a couple of years ago were the ones to call for equal action to that in Tunis, and I believe they set up the FB pages.

The MB have actually been ambivalent of protests up until today. Only today did they support demonstrations for after prayers.

Yes, there is a risk that they could take advantage of this situation, but with Baradei in the mix, one would hope that international support could facilitate a caretaker government and then elections...

I can live in hope....

This does bring some echos of 1989 when communism collapsed. I wonder though if people are a bit wiser in letting the clerics get into power in the name of anti-corruption. That was how the hardliners got into power in Iran and how Hamas got control of Gaza.

I wonder if prosperity and democracy reaches these countries whether or not as many of the population will be Muslim.

Sorry LittleMiss, missed your post.

Live fire in Cairo. Police stations in Alex burnt to ground.

Police forces in Alex surrounded and isolated in football field. Alex and Suez are free...

Or at least they were until the Army started shooting live ammunition

Sauvignon, she should keep her eye on the Foreign Office advice here

Currently no restrictions...

I looked up the site this morning because we were booked to go to Egypt at Easter. DH woke up at 5am worried after last nights news - realised we would be just in time to cancel/rearrange without too much penalty.

So this morning after a couple of hours on phone when they opened at 8am to very amenable Thomas Cook (all 3 people he talked to were lovely, couldn't have been more helpful), we're now going to Turkey instead, Greek ruins in Ephesus instead of Egyptian ones in Luxor.

Chances are Luxor would be OK; chances are it'll have simmered down by Easter. My DH doesn't take chances when we've got DD with us.

These fires are getting a bit too close to the Cairo Museum.

Alexander Armstrong's parents are in Alamein... anyone with ideas on safety of that area?

I think they ought to be OK, it's pretty far out of major cities...

Israeli minister urges Mubarak to use violence against the demonstrators:

www.presstv.ir/detail/162335.html

And a briliant interview exposing the hypocrisy and lies of the West:

english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2011/01/201112713644706462.html

Kurkum. I don't see how that is helpful talking about 'the west' when you clearly mean the USA.

This is fantastic. Should be some great holiday deals coming soon.

sweetgilly

ThePosieParker.

"The reality is that Mubarak is in power in Cairo with the west's blessing, approval, support, sponsorship, funding and arms. Democrat and Republican presidents, Labour and Conservative prime ministers, have all cosied up to Egypt's "secular" tyrant, a self-proclaimed but ineffective bulwark against "Islamic extremism", since he assumed the presidency in 1981.

Mubarak might be a son of a bitch but, as the saying goes, he is very much OUR son of a bitch.

... It's not just the dastardly Yanks who have been playing footsie with Mubarak, his torturers and his secret police. According to the UK's Foreign Office, "the British and Egyptian governments have a strong relationship and share mutual objectives."

• The UK is the largest foreign investor in Egypt.

• Tony Blair, that other great neoconservative crusader for freedom and democracy in the Middle East, visited Egypt with his family on holiday on several occasions, had countless meetings with Mubarak, but never chastised him in the manner that he now chastises, say, the Iranians. Shamefully, Blair, while in office as prime minister of the United Kingdom, allowed Mubarak to pay for his family's luxury holiday."

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2011/01/hosni-mubarak-egypt-united

This is fantastic. Should be some great holiday deals coming soon.

Except now the FO advice is, no non-essential travel to Cairo, Alexandria, Luxor and Suez.

Very hard to see where this will go. Think what happened after the overthrow of the Shah of Iran...

Let me precis this for you a little Kurkum.

Israel is tolerated by it's neighbours on all sides.

Mubarek knows which side his bread is buttered and is no threat to Israel as a result of it.

That is a boat that can't be rocked.

How'd I do?

So until other pieces are in play, you'll see the wording by the US/UK very careful NOT to directly state that Mubarak must stay. They have stated that he must do as he says, they have stated that they will vigorously defend the freedom and civil liberty of the Egyptian people, and they have talked about working with the Govt. (critically didn't name names though!)

if the US ask this guy to go, God only knows who would step in to take his place.

Some beardy bloke chanting death to Israel? Not worth the risk.

Let's see who forms realistic leadership potential over the next few days and see who people start to back then.

I hope that Baradei turns out to be the potential leader I feel he could be, and I am sure the international community would back him.

Ultimately Hosni has to go, and he will, but he is clinging on to power. It took Tunisia a month to rid themselves.

It won't go the way of Iran. It can't.

Blair has a fuckoff HUGE villa in Sharm el Sheik and was always over there on frigging holiday. Why is anyone surprised, he's no bloody better.

FWIW, The last time Mubarak met a real egyptian was probably in the mid-80s.

when his wife Susanna used to come to Alex library next to our flat, the roads were cleared the night before, Our car was not allowed to park in the private road behind our building. Police knocked door to door in all surrounding buildings taking details of all foreigners. The roads, the main coastal road, was closed literally for 2 hours.

When the King of Saudi came over, the same happened, the roads were closed for the entire day, just because they were driving past, there were marksmen on our building roof, we were not allowed access to our own building roof. The entourage was so immense for the pair of them, the motorboke out riders, the secret police the assistants, aids and regular police the VIP cars and the same behind literally took 20 minutes to pass our flat, and this at high speed. It was bonkers!

All the road markings were repainted the day before and the road resurfaced.

The Mubaraks live in a EgyptWonderLand, where everthing is clean and new and empty. The reality is the direct opposite.

LittleMissHissyFit:
"Some beardy bloke chanting death to Israel? Not worth the risk"

As a matter of fact, the death of the "Jewish state" would be welcomed by many Jewish Israelis. As Israel Shahak says:

"... By this official definition, Israel ?belongs? to persons who are defined by the Israeli authorities as ?Jewish?, irrespective of where they live, and to them alone. On the other hand, Israel doesn?t officially ?belong? to its non-Jewish citizens, whose status is considered even officially as inferior.

www.radicalpress.com/?p=617

So you are hoping Egypt falls into the hands of Western-friendly neo-liberals, rather than for the Egyptian people to elect their own leader?

Yes I am aware of the few Jews that deny the legitimacy of Israel, and the precedence of history and what not, but it's hardly helpful.

I am hoping that the right person for the job presents themselves and that the process enables the people to choose him or her... (HER? unlikely though, let's be honest! )

Egypt is a country in her own right, HOWEVER,

As any Egyptian with more than one brain cell would tell you, Egypt doesn't only belong to the Egyptians, she belongs to the world. Egypt is the birth of history, of monotheism, civilisation and a foundation to our branch of linguistics.

Who runs Egypt is far more important than who runs pretty much any other country. The country is at the centre of our planet on pretty much most of all east to west or west to east trade routes or flight paths. Suez canal is essential to world trade.

The only reason this bloke has been allowed to stay in power for so long, was because he didn't rock the boat. He typically didn't do anything, just as he was told.

Whoever puts themselves in the frame for this job HAS to have international buy in. The western leaders are understandably very nervous about who could take the place of dear old Hosni, as soon as a credible candidate appears, the west's tolerance of Mubarak will start to ebb away.

Egypt as a country has been run down for the last 50 years, and drastically so in the last 30. Illiteracy has reversed from 30 odd percent in the 1950s, to 70 odd percent today. Education is literally not worth the paper it is written on in many cases. I have come across people with Certificates in Computer Science. they have never touched a computer, let alone switched it on, she paid for her certificate. Others will study, but they will go years and years without work, or an intelligent girl with a degree in engineering will end up on a production line until she gets married and then has to stop work anyway. God help you if you get sick there and don't have shit loads of cash to pay top whack prices. The NHS system they have has pretty much imploded.

If a ranting cleric is put in charge it will have devastating consequences for everyone. It will not be allowed to happen. It's not right for the people, the region or the world. It'd put Egypt into the dark ages.

Egypt is right at the limit of being conditioned to sit back and do nothing, they have been brainwashed into subserviency. It's only seeing Tunisia that sparked a few brains into gear, and thank god that it did.

Other countries like neighbouring Libya have been fed bollocks for over 40 years. They may now be practically beyond self salvation. They will believe pretty much whatever Quadaffi says. We can only hope that someone there might be inspired by the actions of their neighbours.

I wonder if there will be problems with the biblical Sini region between Isreal and Egypt again, they have fought over that land many times.

I have seen the treatment of people who had an Isreal Stamp in their passport, mygoodness I would not want to be Jewish right now, they were so horrible and rude to the jewish family infront of us, and they were smiling and rubbing my kids heads! Little did they know that 4 generations ago exh's relatives were jewish.

MummieHunnie:

Have you seen the way the Palestinians are treated?

I want to be carefull what I write here as I am no expert! I have deleted what I want to say so many times, incase it causes offence!

I am not fully educated on the matter, it is just from watching news reports for years.

When there are news reports about Palestine and Israel, this is what I tell my children.

I don't get why the Israli government keeps invading Palestine for yet more scraps of Palistian land and knocking down their homes and making them homeless and landless. It is hardly surprising that the Pal's then right back. The jews were treated terribly in WW2, and quite rightly they were given land afterwards. Why the Israli government is not keen on peace and keep taking extra scraps of land that they were allocated after WW2 is beyond me personally. There may be a good reason for it, I have never head one being reported on the news.

should read fight back

Everyone in the region is worried about the situation, if it goes wrong, it can be catastrophic. There are however enough people with the global view paying extremely close atention.

The mood I am getting from Egypt is a very different one to the Egypt I lived in.

IME Egypt is very discriminatory against everyone and everything, they usually dislike anyone except Egyptians, they can be very arrogant and vocal about their nationality/country in comparison to pretty much everywhere else. They can be scathing of the west, the arabs, non-muslims, women etc.

Even internally, a Saidi (Those from the middle of the country Said) or Fellaheen northerly delta countryside) would often lie about their roots, and say they came from a city. Those from the near Nuban region (Aswan/Luxor) are darker and therefore judged due to their more 'african' appearance. Nubans would say they are Saidi, which although still percieved as lower class, is better than being classed as Nuban to some.

At the moment, it is clear that they are not discriminating against anyone in terms of
Religion or Geography.

Muslim Brotherhood were chanting Allah Akbar. Crowd stopped them by chanting louder: Muslim, Christian, we?re all Egyptian.

This follows on from the Alex bombs where muslims formed a human shield to protect the Copts attending mass on their Christmas day.

Christians returned the favour by shielding the muslims as they prayed in the face of the Security Forces.

There was a chant about Saidis coming to protest, there have been massive protests in Assiut (50/50 Muslim/Christian city, and often the location of large faith based issues) All protesters have been united in wanting Mubarak out, regardless of faith. This is unprecedented. Even in 7000 years of history.

Egypt doesn't want fundamentalism in the main. Even the Arabs don't really want that, as they use Egypt as their playground.

I think if they can win this revolution, get rid of Mubarak, it'll give them a huge leg up in terms of Nationalist pride and not religious based pride.

It'll be a turning point for the region.

Weird looking at the footage of the protesters - not a single woman to be seen.