Shit, it's really kicking off in Egypt....

[headfairy]

watching reuters footage coming in, they've got tear gas and the police are shooting protesters now. Bloody terrifying!

[MummieHunnie]

When I went to the Red Sea, there were no Egyptian women. When I went to Cairo, the women were there working away all over the place.

[LittleMissHissyFit]

Erm, Women don't usually take to the streets. Actually in general.

What would be weird is when women are seen to be part of the protests.

FWIW, there are reports today of Suez Women going out to protest instead of the men, who have been up all night protecting the neighbourhood. They are going out to protest to give the men a rest. THIS is extremely UNUSUAL.

In my 3yrs there, I almost never went out. Often it would be 2-3 weeks between leaving my flat. The record run was 10 weeks, and only then because I was bleeding heavily with a MC. I was literally hours away from death.

If I did venture out, as a female forriner, I'd be photographed, watched and followed. I was lucky. Many other foreign women I knew were sexually harassed when they went out.

The woman's place is often in the home in Egypt.

[LittleMissHissyFit]

Egyptian women wouldn't go to the Red Sea resorts. It's a western place. For one, they'd have to get past the police check points, and for another it wouldn't be seemly to go there because everyone knows there is alcohol there and foreigners who have sex with locals.

Women do work, but they do not wander around with no purpose. If they are out of the home it's usually for a reason. Shopping, going to or from somewhere. To go for a wander, certainly in Alex, is not really something women could generally do. They would be propositioned for sure. They might sit in cafe's having shishas or what not, but even that is pretty rare in Alex.

Cairo is more open, but the appearance of propriety is still very important. Women don't smoke in open view, it's not deemed as seemly.

[LittleMissHissyFit]

I was not even allowed to sit on our flat's balcony.

[BeenBeta]

I did see a few women on TV yesterday waving plackards in side streets I suspect near their homes but not marching on the street with the young men.

I did sadly see a few women trapped against a barrier fence on a main road being beaten by a gang of police. They seemed to me to be just women who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and the policemen were just picking on defenceless women because they couldn't control the gangs of men.

LittleMissHissy - you made a very interesting post. When I heard about the human shields (on a post the other day on MN)I immediatley thought that they were actually silent protests against Mubarak because gatherings like that so are so unusual.

[TwoIfBySea]

Wow LittleMissHissy you've given out more useful information in your few posts than I've heard on any tv news report since this started.

The last thing the world needs is another Islamic fundamentalist state so it would be good for that not to happen. I take it that part of the protest is to give women more freedom? Is it the government that hold on to such traditions or is it more an Egyptian way of life?

[MummieHunnie]

The men working by the red sea often said they originated from Cairo, they had a wife there who lived with family and worked there. I assume they lived apart due to financial need.

Cairo's living conditions I imagine are not geat for all, there are some lovely clean parts to Cairo and like many cities there are some not so great parts.

On the way to one of the ancient wonders of the world, and I imagine the most visited in Cairo, you drive through rubbish dumps what should be I presume part of the nile as it is a blocked up water way kids half dressed, people living in buildings that have been condemmed and the government allows them to live there wants to knock down.

[LittleMissHissyFit]

TwoIfByTheSea: It'd be great if Women were treated better as a result of this, and while I am boring telling anyone who'll listen that Democracy First, Some semblance of a move toward better rights for women next... I fear that is a hope too far... but I'll keep baning that drum...

Other posts I have made elsewhere talk about the Stockholm Situation that women there find themselves in. It'll take more than ousting a President of 30 years to improve their lot... but we can live in hope.

MummieH, no, those waterways are irrigation channels more like. Did you go to Saqquara/Dahshur? You'd pass through places like that en route to them, it's like going back in time.

HOWEVER, Even in Alex where I lived, a supposedly rich city in many respects, there are people living in condemned buildings. Buildings collapse all the time and people, a handfull die here, a handful there.

Thing is, corruption is rife, you get the order to leave, but where to go? No assistance to help you. No place to rent that is in these people's budget. 90% of the time the buildings are built badly because the developer or construction company has taken short cuts and paid off the building control people.

They apply and design for 4 floors, the whack on another 3 or 4. If the inspector ever comes, or the police or what have you, 50LE, 100LE ought to give them a dose of amnesia.

On another similar subject and highly concerning, a Tunisian Islamist is making his way to Tunis after exile. I know nothing of him, so don't know how strong his views...

Am hoping he will not be a radical, that is the last thing anyone needs.

[LittleMissHissyFit]

Tunisian Islamist returns

[LittleMissHissyFit]

They have already created Twitter hashtags for other countries.

The touchpaper has been lit.

"hashtag dates already being planned for Arab world - Sudan #Jan30 Yemen #Feb3 Syria #Feb5 Algeria #Feb12"

[LittleMissHissyFit]

I know it sounds dramatic, but these events are world changing, they could affect everyone on this earth, and if they reach their full potential, could make life better for everyone.

This region has never had proper democracy. Egypt has over 7000 years of documented history and in none of those years did they choose who ruled them.

Many of these countries have got nowhere near the same human rights as we take for granted. In Egypt, they can arrest you (and have been able to do so for 30yrs) if there are more than 3 people gathered. Every 5 years Mubarak renewed the Emergency Measures put in place following the assassination of Sadat to keep the people oppressed.

The world needs to watch, this is very important indeed.

[MummieHunnie]

I haven't seen the news in 24 hours I will take a look, it sounds huge! MissHissyFit. Can i ask you something personal? You said you lived in Egypt, and were a foreigner, and you know a lot, can you share your situation?

[MummieHunnie]

No TV anymore turned off, fighter jets in the sky, not looking good!

[MummieHunnie]

It sounds like Military on the roads in Sharm now!

[LittleMissHissyFit]

I'm out, have been so for 18m.

H is Egyptian, was due to fly on Friday.... that's on hold. He's getting on my nerves, I'm going to need more wine...

My only friend in Alex is going to try to come home tomorrow. She's very scared, there are gangs hijacking cars apparently.

[BeenBeta]

LittleMiss - I agree this could be a world changing event. It seems to me that Egypt because of its location and its standing between Islamic and Christian worlds is pivotal. I used to send oil tankers up and down the Suez canal many years ago and know how strategic that is but I think it could have a huge influence on geopolitics too.

The bit I cant figure is which way it is going. Will it be Islamic fundamentalism or a tolerant democracy or a fractured sectarian tribalism along the lines you describe?

If I had to bet I would say the Muslim Brotherhood will take charge but what does that mean for Egypt and the world?

[MummieHunnie]

According to the bbc, they have confirmation that the police are in plain clothes doing the looting!

With no police on the streets, the protesters are asking for army help!

I think they are walking into a trap, as isn't the president the head of the arm, and will it be him that told the police to stand down, all sounds suspicious to me.

Why is America giving Egypt aid, I would have thought Egypt was not in need of aid!?

[MummieHunnie]

After footage of damaged antiquities was shown on al-Jazeera TV, Egyptologist Margaret Maitland, writing on The Eloquent Peasant blog , says she has been studying the evidence: "I've managed to identify a number of the objects shown damaged in the al-Jazeera footage, including statues of Tutankhamun and the mummies of his great-grandparents."

Idiots

[MummieHunnie]

I had a look at the site of Margaret Maitland Egyptologist, the pictures she has of the damage at the Cairo Museum is dreadfull!

What the hell were they thinking damaging history and potential income from tourists in the future!

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

LittleMiss - please keep posting any thoughts or insights you have, I am finding what you say very interesting.

[firstforthought]

I have been glued to AJE for days. Phoning the in-laws to check alls well.
LittleMiss, I have to answer your previous post. I too lived in Egypt for 2.5yrs, DD born there. I lived in Cairo and went out most days. I was never photographed or harassed. People were very kind if somewhat curious. I guess everybody has his/her own experience. Harassment has risen over recent years and this includes Egyptian women. I know of 2 women personally who have experienced it.

[MumInBeds]

I have nothing of value to add but I am finding the conversation here so fascinating, thank you very much.

[firstforthought]

Sorry to hear that your experience of Egypt was stifling an restrictive. "I was not even allowed to sit on our flat's balcony".

[BeenBeta]

It seems the army is beginning to try and restore some kind of order. Sky reporting fighter jets overhead and the Head of the army was seen in a convoy heading towards the TV station.

On top of that El Baradei is calling for a Govt of national unity and Mubarak to leave office.