Sexual exploitation of teenagers by (mainly) Asian gangs

[edam]

hundreds of young girls are being groomed and prostituted by gangs according to an investigation by The Times]] Only the gangs are predominantly Asian men so the authorities have been very reluctant to either talk about it or act - even now the Home Office 'has no plans' to do any research into the pattern of offending, despite a request by the safeguarding children's board in Derby, backed by Barnardos. Former MP Ann Cryer has been campaigning on this for years but was shouted down with cries of 'racism'.

Afraid Times is now behind a paywall so can't link to the full story but if you have access, it's here down the page under 'UK news'.

Strikes me that the racists here are the officials who are afraid to uphold the law or to talk about this. And that it's yet another example where racism trumps misogyny.

There have been some prosecutions - 56 men convicted in 17 cases. But sounds as if the Home Office doesn't want anyone to find out if the problem is far more widespread.

I read Call the Midwife a couple of years. It is the recollections of a midwife, working in the East End of London, in the 1950's. A whole chapter is devoted to the subject of men who preyed on vulnerable girls (runaways mainly), plying them with gifts and telling them that they loved them and then ultimately trapping them into prostitution.

This all happened before most people owned a TV and FWIW has probably happened since the dawn of time. It has little to do with nail bar's in Hamley's, music videos or the way Western Women dress. These sort of scenarios happen in places like Iran and Saudia Arabi too.

Moroever, historically the human race has managed to view anyone of a different religion as "less than human" and combined with misogyny this is the inevitable outcome.

raspberryroo - i didn't give an age, not sure about a 9 year old, your words but seeing what looked alot like 4/5 year olds having their nails done, yeah, i think it STINKS. all very different from a mother at home for fun painting her kids nails (although personnally i never do this as i don't like that either but i acknowledge it has harmless fun, all part of dressing up) to spending money for a professional to do it so the kid is emulating ie kylie etc. why not go the whole hog and buy them a sequined boob tube too. and wtf does the circumcision/marriage comment have to do with what i said? i don't think either are acceptable. i agree with you

Indeed Riven, and I'm pretty certain that most Asian countries take a VERY dim view of drug dealing and prostitution! The Qu'ran is just as much a handbook on how to be a good person as the Bible is.

I disagree, there is a general assumption that unless stated people are white males when it comes to crime. So an Irish gang would be Irish identifiable by origin, Muslim is mentioned because that's the common factor, otherwise a large gang means white British.

MissQue, that they might, but I'm not sure they have any marital rape laws....swings and roundabouts.

reeling sorry, I wasn't very clear. I don't know the law in Pakistan, my comment was about British men - and it is almost all men - who travel abroad as 'sex tourists', particularly where the focus is on young girls rather than prostitutes of age. It used to be that these men were highly unlikely to face prosecution and once they'd finished their holiday (often 10-14 days so fairly short window) and returned to the UK, they would have had to be extradited to face charges and it just never happened or there was no extradition treaty.

The UK law changed - early this century I think - and now these men can be prosecuted in the UK as long as it was an offence in the country where they committed it, ie they had sex with a girl who was younger than the legal age of consent in her own country's law. There have since been successful prosecutions.

Your earlier point raised the reverse situation of white/european men targetting girls of other races for sex, I was just adding in the prosecution element since one of the themes of the Times campaign has been whether there is under-investigation / prosecution of these crimes for fear of being called racist by focusing on the muslim / Pakistani communities. I think the sex tourism thing is acknowledged as a problem and actually there was a serious domestic campaign to give more teeth to our legal means of seeking justice. (I was involved in the campaigning, hence my interest!)

Actually Iran has the highest proportion of heroin addicts in the world so there is plenty of drug dealing going on there. All countries have their problems.

And TBH a lot of this is merely about victim blaming. Raping women is illegal. Men are fully in control of their genitals and they cannot blame it on anything else apart from themselves.

riven - i think the mistake alot of people make is thinking something is related to islam/muslim instead of say a behavioural pattern being more of a cultural thing and nothing to do with religion. 'islam' sadly unintentionally attracts alot of negative publicity as the suicide bombings that take place around the world seem to be done in the name of 'islam' (not my opinion, more in the words of the perpurtrator) so it is understandable if some people attirbute negative thoughts towards muslims which is a shame as they sadly get tarnished with the same brush. i don't think it helps however that in general muslims do seem to live among their own instead of mixing more the way other minority's successfully do. i think the problem is that the cultures are so far removed that it is hard. i live in east london and know exactly what i am talking about. it is sad

I think it's when people feel unable to discuss these things, that the BNP fills the void.

Agree with Commanderdrool, its also the constant demonisation of western culture that starts to trigger the DM reader in me of if its so bad here go and live in a country where you are happier with the local conventions.

itsatiggerday
In Muslim countrys men can marry young girls so the need for sex tourism in those countrys is not needed
I was reading in The Saudi Gazzete about rich muslims mainly from Saudi Arabia going to more liberal muslim countrys and marrying young girls for a month or two ,having sex then divorcing them before going home
Having sex with children is legal in those countrys as long as you are married to them
I also remember reading about a young girls experience getting married to an older man. She was divorced at 10 years old

Riven the way men from eastern europe and coutnries like turkey, iraq and pakistan has nothing to do with TV it is to do with the fact that they have been brought up not to value women as we do in western society.

I came originally from a town where there was at one point a huge influx of immigrants from these country, the way the men would look at you put the fear of god into you and if you went to a pub or a bar they would thinkt hey had free reign to touch you - it is their attitude that needs to change and has nothing to do with TV at all.

Listened to R4 this morning. Jack Straw, Keith Vaz (sp?) and a policeman of some sort. They all hummed and hawed and KV and the policeman basically agreed that it wasn't a 'cultural' thing at all but they both almost straight away turned to the inevitable 'but what we must address is why these young women are in such a vulernable position in the first place' (I paraphrase). My response to that was BOLLOCKS! That may well be something that needs to be addressed but not in this context! In this context the only thing that needs addressing is the vile twats who think its acceptable to do this to any woman regardless of how 'vulernable' they are. Because until that simple lesson is understood all women will be vulnerable in all kinds of positions.

I was going to prattle on about TV and the sexualisation of youth, but as I have been in practical despair all day since receiving a text from a dear friend, I thought again.

Can we remove the Muslim/Islam stuff out of this discussion please, it is utterly irrelevant.

As our 'resident Muslim' herself says () These men are as muslim as a housebrick.

This is due to upbringing, nothing more.

In egypt both christian and muslim families 'teach' their girls that they have to be like this, do that and basically STFU and get on with it.

The deeply sad text I received today from a friend there (married to christian) told me that her BIL literally verbally attacked his DW in front of the entire family (not the first time either) not one person raised an eyebrow. She married him before her 20s, and literally has been raised to take this kind of treatment. The utter non-reaction of the rest of the family at the time (in the dozens at an event) was chilling she said.

Her neighbours kids also came round the other day. The DD (10) was being ordered about by her brother (7) and basically being abused by him. she didn't argue back.

She's 10.. she already has accepted that her younger brother, a male, has the right to boss her about and be mean and she has to take it. Already, there is literally NO hope for her. I almost cried when I heard this.

I have no idea what religion these DC are, but it could be either.

Islam is not to blame for the way in which women are treated in cultures such as these, it goes deeper than this. Oh and I'm no fan of religion, don't get me wrong, but it is NOT what is driving this misogyny. That is societal misogyny which is gaining strength in many ways.

In our culture, I place blame on the overt sexualisation of our youth, the media, J. Kyle et al bringing the dregs of society onto our telly, in effect normalising that behaviour and encouraging it by sensationalising FAME at literally ANY cost, by ANY deed.

We as people, free to live as we wish, broadly morally intact, and kind hearted are being disproportionately represented on TV and film and news as out of control, drunken, and sex crazed. However the amount of crap on telly, the sexual imagery, language exposed to our youth at younger and younger ages, parents ignoring game age recommendations all adds up. We are equipping our DC with vocab and imagery they are not old psychologically mature enough to handle. Sure they know the words, but not the implications.

Mary Whitehouse was actually right. As many of her then critics have come out and publically said.

I am astounded that again Muslim voices seem silent about this. I cannot think a religion that weedles its way into law, not ours thankfully, everyday life for its followers and consistently shows itself as a poor deal for women would promote a culture where all women are respected, like I said before the covered woman is seen as a trophy, a sign of righteous modesty. Where does that leave the white non Muslim? If to cover is right? Logically it can only mean one thing, less or no respect.

I also wonder if the recent crackdowns in paedophilia in places such as Thailand is causing an increase in home-grown trafficking of underage/vulnerable women?

I agree with both Edam and smallwhitecat. And it's not very often that will happen on one thread!

I know it's a minefield, and we do need to be careful that we do not make collective cultural/ethnic assumptions, but that is no reason to shy away from speaking the facts out loud dealing dealing with this and examining the reasons why it is happening.

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but interestingly they have the same problem in the Netherlands, though the men in question there are Turks and Moroccans. The link is that they are all Muslim and have a similar attitude to white western women being little better than prostitutes compared to 'their own' women. So of, course we could say it is a backward-thinking Muslim issue rather than a Pakistani one, but that would be even more contentious.

salvador I'm sure you're right. My point wasn't about predominantly muslim countries. It was more to the point of whether the 'reverse' racism angle is comparable. I do think that sex tourism by white Brits is an endemic problem, but I also think that efforts have been made to find effective ways of dealing with it. So the same should happen here, if the evidence stands that the problem is significantly amongst a non white section of the population. We shouldn't have to fear a backlash accusation of racism.

muslim women who chose to cover i actually admire (the ones who chose, make their own choice) as it does free you from the 'having to lose weight/such emphasis on what you look like', i understand and respect that, but i can tell that not all are free to make this decision themselves. 'mary whitehouse' - if only she were still alive!

We can't leave the Muslim aspect out, absolutely not. These people identify and justify themselves as Muslim and I'm sure they were welcomed into the Mosque every week, I bet they can recite the Koran. Whether they interpret it the Afghan, the kurdish or whatever way. Islam does not promote equality for women in it's practical mainstream interpretation, well not in countries that are predominantly Muslim and I would guess that these have a more Muslim idea.

Don't think anyone has mentioned the My Dangerous Loverboy campaign, designed to raise awareness of the internal trafficking of vulnerable young girls into the sex trade.

It's primarily aimed at teenage girls themselves, attempting to highlight the grooming techniques that can be used on them.

A very good educational tool, I think, for schools and youth groups etc.

Apologies if this has already been linked to and I missed it!

I'm sickened that Catholics/Muslims always, always deny that the ingrained accepted wrongdoings of "their kind" have anything to do with their religion.

Of course abhorrent behaviour manifests itself throughout the whole of humanity but certain religions undoubtedly have a predilection for the subjugation and abuse of women and children.

Catholics have had sex totally distorted by their teachings and rules as have Muslims.

The thought of some idiot blowing up hundreds of "infidels" on the promise of 40 children virgins is possibly the product of the most twisted belief system on the planet.

We can't take religion out of the equation when we look at these crimes when it is actually the cornerstone of accepted behavioural norms.