Yet another dog attack

[borderslass]

poor child

Apologies Beer, I interpreted that incorrectly.

CKN, no, and this is my point. The mother was steaming about the 'incident' and DH is worried sick that she'll try to hype it up, and push for Dennis to be destroyed, but at the end of the day, why?

Because her child has interpreted that Dennis has bitten her. But we haven't seen evidence to support it! But if she decides to take it further, where do we stand? Would Dennis be destroyed, possibly because he just nudged a girl's hand looking for affection??

Whenever you see "dog" and "child" linked in the media, it's because of child having been bitten by said dog. You never see anything positive anymore. Dog rescues child. Dog defends child. Dog provides comfort to elderly. All these things are going on around us, and it never gets reported on.

Clearly, in the Akita's circumstance, a result of 150 stitches, well, as I've said before, I very definitely do support the dog needing to be destroyed.

OTH I do my breed research and I would never have a dog of that ilk in a situation where children are exposed (potentially unsupervised) to it.

As a responsible dog owner, owning a breed like this, surely you would put into place restrictions to try to ensure that attacks (yes, I agree, this is an attack) like this don't happen.

But at the end of the day, in my mind, it still begs the question... Is it because the dog was provoked, or is it because it was left unattended, and just decided to flip out.

Fair point mouse, as I've (hopefully) iterated above

We always had gsd as pets at home, my dad said they learned very quickly and were very obedient. I guess that is why they are used in the police force. They were not bred as fighting dogs though...

Akitas have this reputation no more than any other dog. They are excellent family pets when raised responsibly by an experienced dog. I would advise that you go around pulling their tails, but I wouldn't advise that you do that to any animal with teeth (or without for that matter).

My own is protective of his family unit. I believe this is a breed trait. This means that he does not always welcome strangers into the house easily. I as his owner, am aware of this, and make efforts to ensure that he does not feel threatened or feel that I am being threatened. The rule of thumb with my dog is do not approach him, let him come to you. Once he has done this, you are okay to pet him as he decided you are not a threat.

The owners of the AKita in this attack should have known that about their dog and should have taken measures to make the dog feel comfortable with the girl being the house. But it is the owners who are at fault. Not Akitas as a breed.

I am giving up, because I am repeating the same fact over and over again, but you are all too interested in what the media have to. But bear in mind the vast majority of these articles are written from an emotive pov and not a factual one and generally by someone who knows very little about dogs or the breed in question. If you'd rather take that as fact than listen to people who actually own dogs and know a fair bit about, or read links written by experts, then there is no point arguing with you.

How much provoking is acceptable before a face full of stitches was her own fault then?

A few days ago a girl was dragged from her bike as she cycled past by two rottweilers, I don't think she did anything to provoke them.

Shiney did you see my question above?

I mean this one "If a dog is bred for hundreds of years as a fighting dog then does that make it a naturally aggressive and need to be trained otherwise or do they all need to be taught (or abused) to be aggressive?"

NO, dogs trained as fighting dogs used to be selected so that they were aggressive towards other dogs, but not people. Any dog who showed people aggression would not be bred from because it is not useful to the sport.

Fighting dogs need to be able to be handled by a lot of people. Some unknown to them, such as the referee and the opponent dog's owner.

It is this selective breeding which made them so loyal people and generally massive people pleasers and how the SBT in the UK and the Akita in Japan earnt the reputation of the nanny dog.

It is only in recent history that these reputations have changed, because unfortunately for the poor dogs, their appearance appeals to the wrong sort of owners.

And agreed, Beer. I've grown up with dogs, and have a very healthy respect for them.

DH, when I first met him, was terrified of dogs, because he was chased as a boy. 3 GSDs let loose in the park decided he'd be a good thing to chase. They ran him up a tree, and the owner stood by and laughed, thinking it was 'cute'

Now, is that a breed thing, or is it irresponsible ownership?

It took for my mum's nutty Saluki cross to steal some sweets, and proceed to sick them up over his foot the first time he met my parents, to get him to relax! And then when we bought our house, I was adamant we'd get a dog. I had to beg DH to go to the rescue centre, and Dennis was the result of that trip. Now, Dennis is more his dog than mine, and all because of the attention-seeking nose nudge and belly-flop/roll thing he does.

My friend has a cocker spaniel who I don't trust with a bargepole. Whenever DS and I go over to see her, I never leave DS alone with the cocker, as I've seen her be possesive about food, and toys. But my friend thinks she's just being cute.

I don't know, have never had a 'fighting dog', and it's worth noting that Akitas and Rottweilers (subject of recent discussion) were definitely not bred for fighting. Even in dogs that were bred for fighting other dogs (e.g. Staffs), aggression towards humans was not a trait selected for, it would have been an undesirable thing as the handlers/owners didn't want to be on the receiving end.

When dogs have particular undesirable traits, I think it's more a case of being careful not to deliberately or inadvertently encourage that behaviour. It's definitely important to be aware of the breed characteristics and tendencies.

I watched a program about the domestication of foxes, sorry it's a wiki link got to dash to school! In 50 years worth of breeding they became more tame and had different traits. Can the opposite not be said about fighting dogs? The best fighters and most aggressive repeatedly being interbred to produce the strongest and most aggressive offspring.

Yes aggression towards other animals, not people. Dogs who showed people aggression were not bred from. Reputable breeders are now trying to 'breed out' the dog aggression trait in many of the fighting dogs.

Argh, posted too soon!

I agree with points raised by beer, and by shiny.

I personally love staffies and rotties, but DH won't let me have one until our kids are grown up and don't live with us. Why?

Hype from the media.

As for those rotties with the girl on the bike, I cannot and also refuse to comment, as I haven't read the story, and again, what are the circumstances? You do get dogs who don't like bikes being ridden near them. Not the child's fault, but boils down to the owner - should they be let off in a situation where this can happen?!

CKN, I agree with your dad that GSDs are easy to train, however, they can be easy to train badly. Dogs trained for the police force, well, they're trained by people who know what they're doing. It's when you get muppets who buy a dog because it looks pretty/goes with the furniture, and leave it to its own devices, that's when you get problems.

And as for how much provoking is acceptable? Ideally, it shouldn't be provoked to begin with. Different dogs have different temperaments. For example, my Dal can be stepped on, laid on, poked and prodded a lot more than my terrier can. It's just his nature - he's a much more easygoing dog.

The dog shouldn't be in a situation where it can be provoked in the first place. If you know your dog, and you know that it's not comfortable in a certain situation, wouldn't you take the necessary steps to avoid it?

It's not media hype - they're not inventing these stories.

Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever read the book "three's a pack" by Joyce Stranger?

I'll expand on this when I get back from school run, but I think she raises some interesting points regarding temperament vs breeding in this book - it's about her own experiences with her dogs.

It is media hype, as it tarnishes the breed, and encourages people to over-react in given situations...

I'm not looking for a world where all dogs are muzzled and on leads at all time (although, my two are never let off unless we're in a secure, fenced in location). What I would like to see is a world where dogs are owned by people who keep them properly, jab them, chip them, walk them, and train them! Not too much to ask, is it?! :o

And well done Beer :) That's not always an easy thing to do.

My dad dislikes rough collies (lassie dogs) a lot, as he was bitten badly by 2 of them. And unless I'm badly mistaken (it's possible!), they were certainly at one point, if not now, classed as a dangerous breed and I think they were banned in Germany. Not sure what the situation is like now, but certainly, they're not a very popular breed over there.

It's not easy, I know. DH still isn't keen on big dogs, but he is warming up to them.

I myself find that (on the whole) bigger dogs tend to have a more laid-back personality when it comes to children. I tend to find smaller dogs (mine included in the past, not so much now) are more jumpy and more prone to snapping.

I do have to confess, that although I adore Dennis to bits, I will never have another terrier. He has a very high prey drive and likes to chase cats so much. It's eased off now he's older, but still, if one were to run in front of him, he'd be gone!

I've loaded a picture of DS and my dal snuggled up together on my profile btw :) I still have to pinch myself that he's that good!

Dals again carry a bit of a reputation for being nutty - Archie is so laid back, it's crazy! When I rescued him, I was gushing about him at work, and my manager took me aside, and said "you do realise they're crazy". I said how do you know - his parents used to breed them, and he said he'd never met one that wasn't nuts. Well, he should come and meet mine lol :)