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So working mothers do NOT harm their children - stuff you (again) Oliver James

320 replies

LadyBiscuit · 01/08/2010 20:46

A very comprehensive study (most comprehensive ever apparently) has been done which shows that mothers who work don't disadvantage their children. It does show that working under 30 hours a week is better for babies but that working per se can actually give children some advantages.

Hurrah

Articles: Torygraph
Grauniad
Washington Post

OP posts:
pamelat · 05/08/2010 19:53

slouching I agree, most men love it. My DH likes to make out that publically that I am expensive to maintain, "complaining" (loving) that I buy the kids expensive clothes etc etc etc.

Likes to say that I am a lady that lunches etc ... have 2 year old and 10 week old, hardly!!

slouchingtowardswaitrose · 05/08/2010 19:59

Why concede the mortgage, if you wouldn't "charge" him a proportionate amount of childcare?

pamelat · 05/08/2010 20:03

No, I would charge portion of childcare if I needed the money.

So allow myself to pay less to mortgage so we can both live in a nicer house than otherwise would.

I also pay out on things like lunches and kids activities on my days "off" so probably evens out.

He gets the drinks in though .

Portofino · 05/08/2010 20:56

I don't get this " I would charge...." stuff. Surely you agree on the division of labour and the money belongs to the family?

jjkm · 06/08/2010 06:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

row78 · 06/08/2010 08:09

I'm not a SAHM yet, but will be in a few months (would like to stay working on less hours but my work are not being flexible, and I won't get a similar job part time in this industry). Of course I don't feel guilty that soon my husband will paying the bills etc. We're a partnership, in the past I have contributed more, made overpayments on mortgage using bonuses, paid for holidays etc. So has my husband. We've never kept track of the extra money, it's both ours anyway, I could have contributed more, maybe him, we don't care. The other week my gran gave me a cheque as a present, I just paid it in our joint account, it's money we'll discuss about the best of spending it together.

At the moment he is having to turn down career enhancing opportunities that involve travel because I can't do the morning and evening childminder run on my own with the hours I work, he won't have to do this anymore once I stay at home. Therefore this decision will be helping him with his career (plus he likes to start work at 6am so he can get home for an hour each night with my son, again something impossible at the moment). Since I've had my son I don't care about my career anymore but if it was the other way round I would be very happy that he stayed at home and I worked and I make all the money if I wanted to push the career side of things. I only intend on doing this until my son (and hopefully some others) are at school. But I will also be contributing to our household in many other ways as well other than just childcare, ways that will make our family life easier than it is at present, and we place a lot of importance on the time we spend together.

We will each have an small allowance that we can spend on how we want with no discussion, and the rest of the money will have to be agreed on, yes we'll have to drop luxuries, but I consider it a luxury to spend more time with my son right now. Obviously if you have less money coming in you can't spend as much but all big expenditure will be discussed, just like it always has.

foureleven · 06/08/2010 08:56

slouching Re your comment about a man who complains his wife isnt working hard enough being an arse..

If they had small children at home all day off course they are working hard.. anyone with kids knows that is hard work.

But how could anyone possibly say that the work/ labour input of a woman who doesnt work and has children at school all day is enough to claim a lifestyle of luxury??

Taking out the male/female factor. Imagine for a moment that you are working 9/10+ hours a day with all the stress that brings so that you could financially support someone who from 9 - 3 every day could do exactly as they pleased with their time.

Most of the men I know share the out-of-office-hours housework & childcare when they get home so I dont think that its unreasonable for them to make a little grumble about that set up. Particularly because often that wasnt what was agreed when they decided to have children.

slouchingtowardswaitrose · 06/08/2010 09:58

411, my husband used to say this about me when we had one small child who did a couple of days at nursery.

I worked like a dog during those hours. I did the housework, organizing, cooking and baking, shopping for food, household and child, all the gardening and outdoor work, DIY, admin, paperwork, filing, dealing with annoying stuff like tax disks, permits, bills, etc, dealing with broken things and tradesmen, etc, etc, etc. The work didn't stop because the child wasn't there for 6 hours.

So I can thoroughly understand what a SAHP does during school hours, gender is not the issue.

Housework and childcare don't stop at the end of business hours, so a couple in which one works in and one works outside the home should indeed share the remainder of the day's tasks when both are home.

The argument re things not being as agreed is moot - no one knows what it's like to have children until they have them, and no one knows how they will change, and everyone has the right to change his or her mind.

There's a lot of emotional and financial abuse happening in middle class marriages where the woman is a SAHM, and it's common for men to use the woman's loss of financial control as an in for various forms of bullying.

Complaining about wife is a very common way for men to try their way into an affair. OW feels flattered, like the 'good' one (according to the professionalized, earning model of female goodness that seems to prevail these days). She too is being controlled by the flattering comparison, etc. Works on her own vanity and competition issues, very clever these men.

foureleven · 06/08/2010 10:06

Haha I hope youa re not suggesting I am being led in to an affair with one of my colleagues?

I am under no illusions about the games some men play, and I know what you mean. But we are talking about the specific men that I know and work with.

Thing I dont get is that every adult has to do the following.. 'housework, organizing, cooking and baking, shopping for food, household and child, all the gardening and outdoor work, DIY, admin, paperwork, filing, dealing with annoying stuff like tax disks, permits, bills, etc, dealing with broken things and tradesmen, etc, etc, etc'

It cant possibly take 30 hours a week to do those things Confused Unless you live in a 6 bedroom house with 2 studies,3 bathrooms and 5 acres..

Although as you say, you had a samll child who did a couple of days at nursery so you had less time. I am talking about people with one or more children who are at school every day of the week.

Tamsin72 · 06/08/2010 10:09

Eagerbeagle, I agree with you 100%.

I'm currently working f.t. after being made redundant from a p.t. job last year. I don't want to work, I'd rather bring up my children, but like most families we need two incomes.

I'm constantly being asked how we cope by both colleauges and home friends and I hate the feeling that I'm being judged for being a working parent. Like you all say, fathers wouldn't ever have this sort of inquisition.

I'm not sure there is an answer for this. My mum gave up work to have kids. She had a better paid job than my dad but being old fashioned, he said that if she wanted to have kids, she had to take responsibility for their care. So she did. If only it were that simple now!

GetOrfMoiLand · 06/08/2010 10:22

Another one here who has felt NO guilt about being a working mother with a baby. Ever. The benefits (for us all) far outweigh the downsides.

Foureleven - I agree with your every word.

HOW can it take 30 hours a week to do stuff which, the vast majority of which, I do in my lunchbreak.

Dealing with bills, tax disc, personal filing etc can be done in half an hour. Yes admit in the old days when you had to go to the post office things would take a bit of time. But now everything is done online, everything is paperless billing. Takes minutes.

Re other things you would do to fill 30 hours a week whilst your kids are at school?

Cleaning - you are just cleaning your own mess. If you work, nobody is in the house all day, it doesn't get messy. Cleaning takes me, DP and DD just a few minutes each day.

Cooking - do a load of cooking at the weekend, out it in the freezer. No need to spend hours every day cooking (and I cook from scratch).

Baking - get your kids to bake cakes (I have baked about 4 cakes in my entire aduly life). Or go to teh cake shop. Or don't eat cakes.

Gardening - have a low maintenane garden. Unless you have a great big garden how long does it take? Not hours per week.

Re the money, I would actually not be able to spend money that I didn't earn. Financial independence is hugely important.

If I had anotehr baby, and DP stayed at home, I would probably expect to come home to a clean house and have dinner cooked for me. I wouldn't want to work 12 hours a day and come home and be expected to hoover.

Oh dear I am a mysoginist.

GetOrfMoiLand · 06/08/2010 10:24

Apols. for terrible typing and spelling. (I can spell, just can't type).

LadyBiscuit · 06/08/2010 10:38

I have an 80ft garden (and am a very keen gardener), have just redecorated my whole flat, overseen a complete refurbishment of said flat, put it on the market and sold it. All on my own, while holding down a very busy full-time job and being a parent. I'm not a heroine, just a single mother. Day to day household admin really isn't that hard. I do everything online - takes minutes as GOML said.

If I had a partner who I was supporting I would expect them to do most of that stuff.

OP posts:
foureleven · 06/08/2010 11:06

Thnaks GOML. Anyway, tax disks are once or twice a year, same for permits.. bills once a month.

pamelat · 06/08/2010 18:39

I agree that once kids are at school, its a "luxury" to stay off work. I intend to carry on with my part time hours once my mnkeys are at school, youngest 10 weeks old so a while away.

I will work 3 or 4 days a week, longer days if necessary financially and on that 1 day to myself I plan to go to the gym, read, tidy and relax ...as a treat to myself for rearing my children now, and as a treat for working hard on the other days and as a result I will be a better mum at the weekends.

Obviously this is a "luxury" and I recognise that but if you can afford it one day a week to yourself 9am-3pm is not a big ask.

I will not expect my DH to support me, my salary from my other days will enable me to be equal. I dont like to think we are unequal.

jjkm · 06/08/2010 21:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Xenia · 07/08/2010 07:21

It's a bit of a non issue as most women and men now and in history have worked and laways work for all kinds of reasons no least because it's best for families and children and usually the parents too.

Those of us who have always worked full time of both genders fit the non work things in around the working hours. The full time workers tend to be brighter and more competent anyway and usually better at child psychology, have better educational qualifications and tend to be better mothers and fathers than those who stay at home ( on the whole) so it's not suprising we and our other halves can organise ourselves so that housework and other taska are done when mummy and daddy are not at work.

We also can sometimes then afford a bit of help with clenaing too and if you reach the dizzy heights of certain earning levels you can outsource lots of dire domestic stuff and enjoy your children. In other words female high earnings facilitate better families and more time with the children. It's win win when you follow the only true path Xenia way.

rookiemater · 07/08/2010 07:54

Hmmm so how smart are part time workers then xenia ?

thefemalecapitalist · 09/08/2010 18:50

This study by researchers at Columbia University has confirmed what rational mothers and fathers already knew: it?s the relationship we develop with our kids and the happiness of the family unit that counts the most. Don?t wait for another study to come out to determine whether you are making the right choices for your family. Use your common sense. Be logical. Know yourself and take decisions with confidence. Everyone benefits when women are able to successfully combine career and family - women benefit (improved well being), men benefit (better work-life balance), children benefit (greater independence/social skills) , and your profession benefits (better gender- balanced organizations).

Xenia · 09/08/2010 21:23

Yes, and most people know that and most mothers work. I don't it's particularyl controversial but the newspapers seem to like suggesting it is.

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