So working mothers do NOT harm their children - stuff you (again) Oliver James

[LadyBiscuit]

A very comprehensive study (most comprehensive ever apparently) has been done which shows that mothers who work don't disadvantage their children. It does show that working under 30 hours a week is better for babies but that working per se can actually give children some advantages.

Hurrah

Articles: Torygraph
Grauniad
Washington Post

"emkana - yes I think you probably do"

Maybe not. All the research I've seen into the division of domestic tasks within households shows that women consistently do MUCH more than men, even when they are also working full-time. It's got better over the past decade, but the division of domestic labour is still very unequal in many households.

In fact, LadyBiscuit, I don't think I do - I think the written word just lends itself to presenting the reality the way you want it - cf the fact that 95 % of MN children are extremely intelligent and academically able!

I agree with you about the housework tbb. But my job is fulfilling and I really enjoy the time I spend with my DS. Then again, I only have one and am a single parent - makes life a lot easier!

LadyBiscuit, my work would be a piece of piss with just one child.

Why did I have three? I do ask myself that question sometimes! It's not just three times the amount of work, it's more, because they create so much more bloody noise, mess and conflict when they're together.

This afternoon I've had 5 children in the house because the kids have their cousins round.

I've had to deal with 2 accidents on the trampoline, countless fights, a bleeding lip and foot..... a water fight that broke out spontaneously just after the rain stopped, a poorly dog. And I'm working tonight at 7pm and haven't got the dinner ready. Why the buggery bollocks am I on mumsnet, wasting time? [galvanises self to go root for pasta and salad]

I work pt, and my house is cleaner than when I was on ML, and I play/interact with the kids more than when I was on ML. It is because I am mentally rested IYSWIM, and this makes me more efficient/energised. Work stresses me out a bit but I enjoy it - the adult company, the challenge, the problem solving. Home stresses me out a bit but I enjoy it - the cuddles, the silliness, the good feeling it gives me (most of the time!).

Its the same as when I was at Uni. I got more revision done once I got a pt job, than when I had all the time in the world. I work better and am happier when I have a structure, and a challenge, and I guess pressure IYSWIM. The whole monotony of a structureless day (other then breakfast, lunch, tea) drives me to distraction.

Hurrah for a good balance I say!

Titty it's the dog that does it!
My DS is of the age where he sees going to the supermarket as an activity so neither of us mind going; we have a cleaner once a fortnight and I don't hoover in between; we eat together (talk then) and the slow cooker gets lots of use in the week, otherwise I prepare a meal with my children and talk to them at the same time; DH is responsible for all washing up; I iron once a week in front of Dragon's Den and talk to DH at the same time; DD does her reading at breakfast time; our gardening is done at the allotment and the children love it; I read in the bath etc etc.
I think we benefit because the children are still small and so can still be persuaded that the little we do is a "fun family task". I do think, however, that some of it is my mindset; because working is my choice I embrace what it means in terms of multitasking with the chores and combining them with prioritising the children when I am not at work.

I'm in the 1/4 as well; my parents and older neighbours were quite concerned when I went back to work when my daughter was 9 months old and I felt really guilty, but my Husband and I earned similar salaries at that point - why didn't they ask if he was going to give up his work and stay at home? Why does someone have to stay at home anyway? I want my daughter growing up to think her Mum and Dad both work and both love her. Yes both me and my Husband would love not to work but this is life

family v.supportive when returning back work.wanted to know all about baby room,nursery,staff and facilities

upon telling friends/family i was pg,next question was what nursery,when are you going back

jjkm - I think wanting to stay at home with your kids is an absolutely valid choice. And I find it infuriating when people talk down to SAHMs or assume they have nothing to say in social situations. But to be honest, in my group of friends, there is a complete mixture of WAHMs, WOHMs, SAHMs and those of us who work work part time. I'm the only fulltime WOHM I know socially and we all muddle along very happily - it's only on MN that the debate becomes so polarised.

And please don't feel sorry for me - I am a single mother by choice!

Thw working mothers who have it hardest are those who allow sexism in their jarriage surely so don't allow it. Also I think getting childcare from 3 - 6 or 7 is really useful for workingmothers even if they finish work earlier because then you get a break chance for a shower, time to do the family admin . Just because you're home doesn't mean yo have to be with the children. Pay someone else to do that.

Good comment this one - oska, no guilt here either. My children have two parents - if he doesn't feel guilty, then not sure why I should??!! "

This is the main issue - most working parents don't feel guilty. No one says a man shouldn't be at work. So it's sexist to make this a female issue at all and I've never regarde it as one and couples for whom it is seek like something out of the ark. If 25 years ago my children's father could be interviewing nannies why isn't childcare a parental notmother's issue in 20210. Did you all marry sexist men? Do you let yourselves have more forced on you than is fair at home and if so why do you allow yourselves to be treated like that - are you sexist too and think if you both work women should still do the washing? I can't understand that attitude.

"My children have two parents - if he doesn't feel guilty, then not sure why I should??!! "

My dh does feel like crap that he sees so little of the children during the week, but he comforts himself with the thought that at least one of us is around for them.

I work at weekends sometimes and what makes it ok for me is the thought that my children are having a good time with their dad on those days.

If both of us worked the hours that DH worked (he's out the house from 7.30 am to 7pm ish Monday to Friday I think my kids would have a poor quality of life, unless I could pay for a really fantastic nanny, or if my mum or sister would come and look after them for 4 hours every day after school and for an hour before school.

Xenia, got to ask you - who provides your childcare and how much do you pay? You are obviously very happy with the way your children are looked after when you're at work.

neither dp or i have any guilt about working.do any sahm feel guilty their husband pays the mn broadband,the mortgage,or fills the fridge.or maintains their choices

tb, when the older children were younger we had a daily nanny. She was with us for ten years and it was the cheapest option - 3 under 5s looked after by one person in our house. She was there from I think about 8am to 6 as we ensured we lived near work of one of us. Certainly it cost 100% of one of our salaries whichthen were about the same o 50% of each but I knew we would both be sufficiently successful over the next 30 years that that was worth the loss/cost.

It's really easy when children are older however and my youngest are now 11. When I was on the 5 or 6 business trips earlier this year as we don';t have a live in au pair which would be the natural solution with children that age and one single parent who has to be abroad on business, my student age children held/hold the fort. In other words have a lot of children over 25 years as I have and you are breeding your own childcarers!

But the important point is to avoid sexism. If there's aquesion of who works 7 - 7 in the week ensure it's the woman always and never the man which then helps to ensure the progress of women and our daughters.Never let the woman at home thing be the default decision. It's morally and politically the wrong choice.

scottishmummy, I felt incredibly guilty about this when I was on maternity leave... for 5 flippin months! I saved before I went on leave so that I could pay myself mostly but he had to pay for any luxuries and I hated it! I felt like a child.

That's my own issue I know but I am uncomfortable with the idea of being supported by a man. I wonder more and more if it is for the political reason Xenia as xenia mentions in her last paragraph.

I feel that some (not all) stay at home mums do give other women a bad name.

For example the wives of the men I work with, always calling asking for money for this that or the other.. and the men muttering about how its all so easy for the wives.

Im not saying it is easy (not if you have small kids at home all day) although if they are at school frankly... what the hell do you do with 7 hours a day??! But the thought of having to phone my husband at work and get him to agree to give me money for something would destroy my very soul.

I worked part time after my twins were born, took a year off whne they were 4 to get them settled into school properly. I was back full time quite soon after that. The girls had child minder, after school club, and a few au pairs after that to provide backup to my husband and I who both run our family business. The girls are now happy, well adjusted 18 year olds waiting to get off to Uni after a nice gap year each.
I had a stay at home Mum who I loved dearly but always felt she had martyred herself to the family and the house. I never wanted her life and I never wanted my kids to feel responsible for holding their Mum back. This is how I ended up feeling and it was bad.

411, why do these women have to call their husbands at work to get money? Why do they not have access to money, which they do not need permission to get? Sounds like these men to whom you refer are controlling financial abusers, yet they seek praise by putting on a martyr routine for your benefit. You fall for that?! Shame on you.

And yeah, their souls are destroyed. But to blame them? Not right.

When children are at school (6 hours actually in most cases, not 7, less when you factor in travel time for school run) SAHMs can easily spend the time on housework, admin, paperwork, shopping, cooking, gardening, DIY, etc. Homemaking is a job like any other and it takes time.

slouching Please dont condescend me like that. I havent 'fallen for' anything.

They do have access to the money, all joint bank accounts. But it is a very very common situation where because one person is at home doing work which could be bought for £4-10 per hour, and the other is at work earning £50/200 per hour.. the one at home feels if they want (eg) to by a new work top for the kitchen and it absolutely must be the marble with the pretty little butterfly shapes in which costs the earth - there will be an element of 'pleeease can we have it, pleeease?'

Its not right, but thats how it is. I have a good friend who is a stay at home mum to a 4 year old and a 7 year old and her husband has told her that due to the downturn in the market she has to get a job or lose most of her luxuries.. she's devastated but has no way now of having any control over it because she has no earning power.. all the luxuries were there because of him..

I just couldnt bare it.

and 'controlling financial abusers?!' yes they are.. working 60 hours a week to put enough money in the joint account for their wives to go to baby sign, costa and the salon every day of the week.

Yes, that's the simple fact - if you're a housewife you're worth very little if the skills are bought in and most people regard it as such. If you earn what some women earn per hours it is many time that and indeed their husbands so the dynamics and power and control alters. If the husband is only on £20k though then it's a fairer divisino - her cleaning skills and nanny duties are worth about what he earns so it's a fair deal.

Ah like the man saying though must go back to work otherwise your luxuries will be cut.

Obviously some couples like that dependence and the fact she has to ask for money and cajoal and swap sex for shoes or whatever but most women in the UK even with udner 5s want to work always have done and plenty work full time and a large number are now earning more than their husbands so it's lal very good and going in the right direction. HGowever every woman we lose to the kitchen is another loss for womankind and the future of our daughters so we have to be vigilant and let them know the damage they do when they stop work.

still cant believe the level of vitriol being expressed here by certain people. not sure why posts like these have to sometimes become so personally insulting towards other posts.. perhaps its that rosy glow of self righteousness which causes it. and the anonynmity of the website. Sister...

Work that could be bought for £4 - £10 an hour.

Winds me up, but at the same time, I'm . Oh. That narrative again.

So why don't these oppressed high earning men just quit their jobs then? Get off the treadmill. Because they fucking love the treadmill. They especially love complaining about how their lazy housewives fleece them for every penny. Read: I am so rich and powerful, I can afford the kind of trophy wife who has only to worry about butterfly shape flecked marble and drink lattes all day. Ooh, praise me for how hard I am working.

These men of course would never waste money by purchasing several coffees every day of the week from Cafe Nero. Oh wait...

In other words, any man who publicly complains that the mother of his children isn't working hard enough, is probably an ass, with secrets.

I would never ask my DH for money. AM on fully paid maternity leave and although I work part time (since children) thats my choice and I will pay my way. If I didnt work at all, I would simply "charge" him half of the equivalent childcare.

My DH earns about twice the salary of me and would probably like to pay for things for me but I think thats wrong. I buy all of the childrens stuff and do take it from the joint account now but things for me are my money.

The only concession I would make is the mortgage. I pay 40% of it since being part time to look after our children as I earn a lot less now.