So working mothers do NOT harm their children - stuff you (again) Oliver James

[LadyBiscuit]

A very comprehensive study (most comprehensive ever apparently) has been done which shows that mothers who work don't disadvantage their children. It does show that working under 30 hours a week is better for babies but that working per se can actually give children some advantages.

Hurrah

Articles: Torygraph
Grauniad
Washington Post

It's funny isn't it marge, because here the children who "have" to go home with mum complain that they can't go to the after school club.
at your children saying they want to kill your boss.

zozzle, although we are the minority, we are happy with our decision, so I suppose it doesn't matter if you "get us".

All these studies should be taken with a pinch of salt - all they do is set people (mainly mothers) against each other, when we should be united and supporting. What matters is that your baby/child is well cared for and nurtured - who does is irrelevant.

My Mum worked from day one as my parents were self employed - I never resented it because I did not know anything else, so it was fine. In fact when I was little I often couldn't wait to leave some friends houses where their 'helicopter' mums were always fussing - I longed to get home for some peace and adventure in the garden!

However, I've just given up work to look after my toddler. I had mat leave for 6 months, went back for 9 months then decided to leave as I wanted another child. (I've lost two in the last year so needed to slow down).

Looking back I think I should have taken one years mat leave. As 'career girl' I felt I should only take the minimum 6 months. But at 6 months your baby is really changing, you have weaning to work out and teething which adds to the pressure. Then they go to nursery and get every illness going, so you feel guilty (and knackered!) about either taking time off work or sending a grouchy child to nursery, when you want to snuggle up and make them better.

After a year kids are more robust and you've got over some early stages, sleeping is better etc etc. Then I reckon, if you want to, (or gagging to) it's time to go back to work.

So, min one year mat leave without the guilt would work wonders on this issue.

and what if one wants to return before 1yr?why do you presume guilt?after all my children i went back 6mth mat leave all my children because i was ready and i wanted to.

Blimey - calm down - see what I mean about how these studies set people against each other...

I presume guilt (and i mean guilt in the sense of society induced) because there are a lot of women (me included) who felt we needed to be the least amount of burden on the company and colleagues.

If you want to go back to work after TWO weeks, that's fine if you have good childcare.

om not aroused, im challenging your assertions.that would be point of discursive forum,non?you can opine about a year off all you want.might suit you, might not suit others.so dont generalise

God, I can't believe there are people out there who would comment to a working mum about leaving her child to be brought up by strangers! I would want to lamp anyone who said that to me.

I work 8/9-5 every day and my son is in full time nursery. He has been since he was 12 months (now 19 months). Thankfully, I'm off work again in 2 months for another year, when DC2 arrives, and I can spend lots of time with him again.

I do of course have the guilt (but more to point, am totally exhausted from 'two' jobs), but I get on with it because I want us to all have a certain quality of life, in a nice home, with healthy food (rarely cheap) and fulfilled parents. I like my job, although would maybe stay at home if money allowed.

I'm planning to go back again after one year, probably part time, although if our circumstances require it I'll do full time again. I totally agree it sets a good example.

I hate all that old govt bullshit about 'best for children to have a mother at home until 3' or whatever it is (is that still the line under the coalition?). We really need my highly paid job to stay in our house and not be skint and miserable. And, although I moan from time to time, I do enjoy the freedom.

Anyway, just thought I would chuck in my tupence.

If you read my original thread properly you will see I have written positively about working mums, I am the product of one and have been one. Plus I'm also experiencing not working, so have a view from both sides.

My alleged generalisation is simply that things like these 'studies' which change week by week create guilt for some women, so am suggesting that it could be solved if one years mat leave was considered normal (not a luxury) to get through the early stages which can cause anguish.

However the choice should also be for mums that want to go back to work as soon as they want to too.

my assertion is that there is that the media, society and many workplaces places huge burdens of guilt on mothers, and scottish mummy you are obviously lucky not to have experienced the pressure.

agree dont think anyone should live vicariously by studies,use your own judgement and knowledge of specific circumstances

i do take issue with being told calm down,oska.is patronising you assume someone else pov is agitated and aroused and presumably your is calm succinct summation

no study will wholly determine my choices

The point of this study, which keeps being repeated but seems to be getting lost, is that it DOESN'T set mums against each other. It says that working is not a worse option; it criticises no-one. However, it still attracts the "why did you bother having children if you don't look after them" brigade.

PS oska, no guilt here either. My children have two parents - if he doesn't feel guilty, then not sure why I should??!!

am on month 3 of maternity leave, am lucky as full pay for 6 months. took 14 months off with dd but now that am part time may go back at 9 or10 months, i miss it and feel better at it full time mum is too hard

I suppose they hate my boss so much because it's one of the things I use to help get me out of the house on time when I have to be in the office by 8am and they are not wanting me to go. "I'll be in trouble with my boss if I am late." NOT that I would - he's quite nice actually!

The thing I hate most about working and being a Mum is the feeling of being spread too thinly and that I am doing it all badly and in a rush. I hate not doing something 'properly'. I feel bad for letting my colleagues at work down when I am not going to be there. (i.e - can't make that meeting sorry - I leave at 2:30) ( conversely also "sorry can;t make that special end of term assembly - I'm working) and then getting the kids home and having to start all over again with a whole new set of problems. Cooking something while the kids are in that after school tired hungry grumpy fighty mood. Persuading them to do homework, put the washing on, hang it up. Tidy up.... I just feel if I was less tired and stretched and in a rush to get everything done I could be a much nicer Mum and spend more happy time with them, doing home work in a better mood, reading with them chatting to them rather than just breaking up the fights and shouting.... and basically bring them up better. If I was home during the day I could have done the cleaning/gone to the post office/picked the car up from the garage/etc etc and got a supper ready while they were out at school.

I feel like a crap employee, a crap Mum. and poor DH doesn't get a look in!!

If you can do all this with a big smile on your face and your kids are happy - SO many congratulations - you ARE superwoman!

There - I'll shut up now! Don't bother flaming me - I'm loggin off now. Work has finished and I'm off to cook supper and break up the fights!!

my children and i socialise with work colleagues and their children too. so the dc see my colleagues etc as parents.we socialise and dont discuss work too much.and the dc take interest im my job and ask what did you do at work mummy.at nursery the discuss it in circle time,all the children discuss parents and their jobs.part of people who help us topic

That's really interesting marge, because a view like that is ever so rare on here. Usually the WOHM's on MN say that they do exactly the same that a SAHM does and that it's no problem to do exactly the same amount and quality of activities with the children as a SAHM. Which always surprises me because I certainly feel from the WOHM's I know in RL that they find it hard just like you describe. And I do find it somehow belittling to SAHM's when it is said that you can be exactly the same mother whether you work or not. I am a firm believer that children can be brought up equally as well whether mothers work or not, but I also believe strongly that you can't be exactly the same mother as a WOHM as you are a SAHM. NOt a worse mother, mind, but certainly a different one.

SM and Clem - you're not hearing what I am saying.

Returning to work should be guilt-free - but there are lots of mums who are burdened with guilt - which is wrong. So I simply muse in my first post a possible solution to cut down on the guilt that many Mums feel.

Lovely if you don't feel it - nor did I when I returned to work after six months. But read many of the posts above and you will see it is very real for lots of mums.

So don't get all on your high horse that "well I didn't feel guilty" when instead we should be helping out our sisters who do, to work out how to fix it.

p.s I thought that anything written in italics is agitated

and i thought anything in bold=passive aggressive.as is wee smiley faces at end of sentence

i have no compulsion to help out any guilty working mum.we all have our subjective experiences,pov, and needs.and i don't need to help out any other mum.because the answer doesnt lie with me it lies with the individual why they feel guilty.structurally such issues may be resolved through HR, govt Policies,not mammies sitting about helping

what are you suggesting a lentil munching work shop.shaaaaaaaaaaaare the guilt ladies, let me help you.oh dear god how patronising

marge2 your last post made me really sad. I hope you can let go of all that at some point.

Your children only know what they know, and im sure they think you're doing agreat job. Its only you who is suffering here. If you finish in time to pick them up from school then you do a damn sight more with them than i do with mine - and my 5 year old tells me on an almost daily basis that Im the best mum in the world. I work 50 hours/wk plus a few each night when she's in bed.

So it needs to be a lentil munching workshop in order to help out people does it? Hmm, now who's being patronising.

I'm off, I thought this would be about sharing and thoughtful debate on a national issue.

Bless.

you are suggesting guilt free mums "help the guilty" mums.cuckoo land

how is guilt monitored on the guilt-o-meter?
which guilty free mums you got in mind?
which guilty mums would you select as faciliataors or helpers
how would you appraise this, monitor quality input and outcomes
how do you select a location
is it compulsory

And ive just read a few more of your posts and now I really wish you could let go of it all.

I tell my kids that my working is a positive thing, I tell them i am building for all of our futures and that I miss them but it is something I need to do. They love me for it.

What i think would make me unhappier than my daughters having no ambition for a career and wanting to be a sahm form a young age is thinking of them worrying about me having to go to work and hating it.

I celebrate the fact that we live in a society where women have choices openly with my DDs.

"I feel like a crap employee, a crap Mum. and poor DH doesn't get a look in!!

If you can do all this with a big smile on your face and your kids are happy - SO many congratulations - you ARE superwoman!"

I couldn't agree with you more.

I look at mothers who work f/t and still seem to shoulder most of the domestic burden (this is true of almost all couples I know) and I think - how the bloody hell do you do it? Or maybe their kids are much less emotionally and physically demanding than my 3dcs. I tried working (nearly) f/t last year and lasted 9 weeks. I had the kids in breakfast club and after school club, and I was working some evenings after DH got home. I was constantly flying by the seat of my pants and my kids were disgusted by not being able to come home after school and being expected to sit in a smelly school hall for 'breakfast club'.

I don't work full-time anymore because if I did I'd probably have a break-down. I certainly wouldn't have a decent quality of life because I'd be spending every evening and weekend doing all the stuff that I currently do during the day while the children are at school. I already feel like I'm on a treadmill and that's with part-time work.

The only way my family could have a good quality of life with me working f/t would be if I earned enough to pay someone else to do all the shitty, drudgey work that's involved with running a home. And also earned enough to pay a nanny to bring my kids home from school, talk to them, get them bathed and cook them a decent meal in the evening.

I envy couples who manage to cover drop off and pick up time between them, or those of you who have family picking up your children from school.

Again, from my experience in RL this seems to be the reality of the vast majority of WOHM's - whereas on MN it seems to be largely sweetness and light - stimulating, interesting work that fulfills, then major quality time with the kids after work, with the housework being a doddle and of course equally shared...

I must know the wrong people in RL

Or perhaps it is about rearranging priorities - housework is not a priority here!
I concede that our house only runs effectively because there is a decent division of labour.

"Or perhaps it is about rearranging priorities - housework is not a priority here!"

My house is a shit-heap whether I'm working or not. I don't spend time polishing my kitchen units or dusting the dado. But food has to be shopped for and cooked, kitchens, toilets and baths need to be cleaned, houses hoovered at least weekly, gardens tidied, dogs walked, clothes washed and put back in the drawers and cupboards (occasionally ) turned out.

And if both of you are out 10 - 12 hours a day, and want to eat, read occasionally and have the odd bath, spend time reading and talking to your children - well when is there time to do housework, shopping and cooking? What about DIY? Gardening? Even if you're dividing it equally? Saturday morning? Weekends? Lovely.

emkana - yes I think you probably do