Should we still be encouraging our children to go to university?

[jollydiane]

Dear DC I am sorry that our politicians have completely screwed up you education, this is what you have to look forward to:

1. Student loans or a graduate tax
2. The demand for university places is outstripping the supply
3. If you don?t go to university then you have very little chance of getting a good job as many employers will not look at your CV without a 2:1
4. Living with your parents as you have no chance of saving for enough for a house.

I cannot tell you how cross I am so tell me I am wrong and everything is fine.

You're spot on, but like you say, "if you don't go to university then you have very little chance of getting a good job", so it is a catch 22

When my dts were born I opened a savings account. I don't have much money and it was before the rather generous government handout so every week I put a little in each account. I don't drink, I don't smoke, as a single mother I don't go out much anyway.

This I see as investing in my dts future. Whether they want to go to uni or not it is their choice but I've done what I can, without expecting everything to be paid for on their behalf, to give them an opportunity.

It is a bleak future you paint however I do think that fate is in your own hands. Either sit back and say "well that is that then" or get off your bum and do your best. If my dts have to go abroad to do what they want to then so be it. I just know I'll have done my best and government be damned.

I'm not sure what your definition of a "good job" is, but I would challenge your assertion that it is necessary to have a university degree to succeed in a challenging and rewarding career.

Most (I'm sure not all) employers don't train any more, they have outsourced training to the university sector so they don't have to pay for it. So if your children want a job that involves training, they are quite likely to have to go to university. So my answer is 'yes'.

I think the only real options that will be open to them are either staying at home and attending the local uni or OU or getting a scholarship abroad.

I think young adults should be able to get a rewarding well paid job that uses their strenghts. Parents and children should not feel that the only option is to go to uni when it is not right for them. However the brutal reality is employers are overwhelmed with appliations so the student with just GCSE or A Levels do not have the same opportunities as previous generations. We must change this.

Bit of an old misery-guts today, aren't we?

If there are student loans and graduate taxes then start saving to help your DC through further education or to get a deposit on a house. If demand for uni places is outstripping supply then encourage DC to win one of those places on merit. If they want to be a professional, a high-flyer or get on a graduate training scheme and a 2:1 is what it takes... ditto. If DC isn't the academic type... celebrate their strengths and encourage them to learn a skill.

Chil - it is true I am not very jolly today. that's better.

Getting a job in the 1990s was so easy. I really feel for students graduating now and think that we need a re-think. It is not good for the economy for everyone to go to uni. Brutal but true.

I agree with JollyDiane.

We should not be angry with politicians about the cost of universities, we should be questioning why we feel that as many children as possible should go to Uni.

It is not the best option for all children and we have to stop selling it as the be and end all of education.

and you a right twobsea we need to start saving for our kids whilst they are in the womb

maybe it's more realistic to tell our kids that going to university doesn't always mean you will get a good job.

'a rewarding well paid job that uses their strenghts' - what's one of them then??

The brutal reality IMO is that if you have a highly valued skill (e.g. ability to sell - that's the key one) then employers will want you. If you haven't, then you have to look at other ways of increasing your employability, and getting a degree is one of them. I think it's absolutely vital to start work long before university age so that you have a work history and know why you are going to university, if you are going. What's also true is that a person who is very committed to a particular job, whether or not it is rewarding or well-paid, turns up on time every day and works really hard, will already be ahead of large chunks of the competition, and will be well-placed to progress if opportunities do come up.

I think life is very very tough for people starting out in life just now. But I graduated in 1991 and one job I applied for had 1,431 applicants - I still didn't think I'd wasted my time going to university.

Its not easy to save for your kids for many people either.

It must be so crushing to go through uni and then do a mundane job that does not use your talents.

lots of people do though. What about all the people who do to university to be really creative on weird and wonderful art courses only to fall back on teaching when they realise they aren't going to be the next Viv Westwood (who incidentally only made it through one term of college), or those who do Maths degree and then realise there isn't really a job called 'maths'.

Surely most people end up in jobs that have very little to do with what they studied at university?

A lot of people have something mundane and unrelated as a first graduate job but move to their chosen career in the end.

It's true that we need to stay focused on our parental role of being supportive of our children's choices and offer guidance (but not prescription) based on their personal strengths.

I dropped out of uni because I couldn't afford it and ended up doing the same job as all the graduates anyway - and on more money because I was more experienced having had a three year head start on them. My brother didn't even go to uni and earns a 6-figure salary having worked his way up. Don't despair - your DCs might survive!

(Or is it just because we are so old and things were different then? Our parents divorced just at the wrong time and it was before the days of student loans, hence the 'no finance' problem.)

If you don't want as many people to go to university, why are you angry that demand is outstripping supply? Wouldn;t that be a good thing?

the world is obsessed with being educated - nothing has improved - rich educated people can still be thick :D

quite, look t George Osborne - prime example of rich, educated and thick.

I think (and I wish I'd done this) that our children need to think, before they start completing UCAS forms, why am I doing this? Where's it going to lead? Is this the right course for me?

And if that means working in a call centre, shop, as a HCA whatever for a few years while they make up their minds then that's fine. Going to University at 18/19 isn't the be all and end all. There's a long time until your retire (a very long time ).

I studied English because it was the thing I was best at. Came out after 4 years and worked in a bookshop for the next 7. Went back to do an MSc and started my career (as a librarian) at 30.

The shop I worked in was full of graduates cursing the waste of 4 years of free higher education (as it was at the time) on degrees that were wasted. We all wished we'd grown up a bit and waited before we made the decision to go.

But it's more complicated now. I'm trying to save for ds but I won't be assuming that he'll automatically choose to go to University.

Ok, I have linked to this so often today already, but it is very good and explains exactly my thoughts on the matter.

The Learning Revolution

This insistance, particularly the last 10 years in UK, that you need a degree to get a decent job is just wrong.

Why do nurses need degrees? What happened to the normal jobs that you used to train on the job for - electrician, plumber, carpenter, nursery teacher - perhaps with one day a week at a vocational college.

As a nurse who did a diploma ,ive often wondered about the degree thing too . However i do think that the nursing profession wants to be viewed as more than drs lackeys by the general public ,especially given that we have taken over many of the drs roles and jobs ,ie IV drugs ,chemotherapy ,hickman/central lines ,venepuncture and cannulation,catherterisation etc etc .From what i can gather from speaking to other nurses who have done a degree ,one of the main differences is a lean towards management .

I think vocational education needs to have more funding directed to it and be a more serious option for people.

In the US, degrees a dime a dozen. As a result, many many have gone back to re-train in a vocation (there are none of these ridiculous, discriminatory age restrictions there) and become far more successful and satisfied in their second careers.

In the allied health professions, there are seriously challenging 3-year programmes for skilled professions like administering nuclear medical exams and the like that are a viable career option with good pay and don't involve university.

Honestly, university is not even for the majority and we need to have a serious paradigm shift.