Hoarders Anonymous. Thread #8. We Are Keeping On Keeping On. Fighting The Cluttered Fight.

[Solo]

We are a group of likeminded householders who are leading somewhat challenging lives; be that living with too much 'stuff' that we find difficult to deal with, houses that are falling apart (mine is), health issues within the family unit, wider family, or ourselves (me too) that means sorting out our households is challenging to say the least. So...

You are all welcome to join us for support, adding your ideas to help others out, storage ideas, and even tips on actually getting those items out of the house which sounds so simple when you say it, but this part can be so very difficult; we are often attached emotionally to our 'things', afraid of letting things go just in case we need them.

Encouragement and support abound here in our band of clutterbugs. We never ever criticise anyone! We even try not to criticise ourselves as it's not helpful to anyone, but this can be very difficult to achieve.

If you are feeling overwhelmed by clutter, mess, disorganization and generally don't know where to start. If you can't be bothered, but really do want to be bothered. If you think you are a bit lazy, or if you just need to see your highs and lows and everything in between on the screen here, join us, and we will help you. We'll virtually high-five your achievements - small or large, and virtually hug you when the need arises. If you want a hug, just ask because we are here for you, here for one another because we get it. The art of washing up is sometimes our great achievement of the day, but it's still an achievement

Some helpful links. They aren't for everyone, but have a look if you fancy:

• Help For Hoarders by Jasmine Harman (the author/producer of the BBC1 documentaries My Hoarder Mum and Me and Britain's Biggest Hoarders)
• The FlyLady Cleaning Method by Marla Cilley
• The Organised Mum Method by Gemma Bray
• The KonMari Method by Marie Kondo
• A Slob Comes Clean by Dana K. White
• The Getting Things Done Method by David Allen

And a LINK-#7

I'm not sure if The Flylady link is working, but if not, you know what to search for.

Welcome to thread #8 of Hoarders Anonymous. Thread #8. We Are Keeping On Keeping On. Fighting The Cluttered Fight (and winning, one small step at a time).

A fortnight elleherd 😱 I would die. Luckily were getting a drastic drop from tomorrow. I'm fine with anything up to about 26, it's when it goes beyond that and especially when it creeps upto 30 that I can't deal with it.

Even if you just get half the tree done for them to take away that's better than nothing. It's the one bonus to all the delays, you have more chances to get rid of more of it. I hope your building is at least drying out effectively in this heat. I can't see why they thought putting a tarp across an inside wall was particularly helpful though, the outside where the water hits it would have been better. Feels like they've just covered up the problem so you can't see it, rather than dealing with it in any useful way and are now trying to pretend it doesn't exist.

It's still bloody hot and feels more humid today. Just a smidge off 30 inside.

Put the washing up that DD did away. Been washing up drinking bottles and some other bits. Given up because I am hot.

Didn't finish paid work till gone midnight and tired, so digging deep today.
So far: accounts brought up to date; trying not to panic about financial reserves over bloody storage units draining faster than contractors finishing here.

@BlueSummerBaby Looking foolish here: I've had an open tab for weather showing continuous sun with the occasional max 20% chance of rain.
After your comment, I realized I've not been refreshing the tab!🙄
Temperature's drop and rain here tomorrow (possibly some today) which would probably have caught me on the hop as I thought we had continuous heat and have been leaving all sorts outside to dry out in the sun. No brains.

Whole building's superficially at least, as dry as it's been in years! (As thankfully is aunts too.)
As far as I understand, the tarp on the inside is to do with the removal of guttering boards including above mine.
My wonky temporary system only diverts some of the water and it flooded through where the boards where. They say nothing can be done about any of it until after scaffolding's down. It was one of the causes of 'unhappiness' on Thurs, but 'accepting' their choices does leave all resulting damages on them. There was a level of looking at what might be scraped off onto me as they claim having a tenanted access flat is the cause of all sorts.🙄
(Last Lords report stage session of the renters rights bill is tomorrow.😃)

Some windows are potentially coming out again this week to allow the (hopefully last) load of big stuff through, so any pretending will be exposed again
You're very right about the tree trunk, and hopefully cooler weather will help me get more done, faster.

@BlackeyedSusan hang on in there. You're doing well to keep going at all. Lots of folk are just waiting things out, and this weather is exhausting many, especially those of us not starting from a great place.

How are you doing Elle? Hope you got some rest!

Today: started washing hand wraps. (Two pairs so every two days) They are in the soaking phase.

Found a receipt to take something back to Asda. Threw away some other receipts.

Not much yet!

No rest for the wicked! Last three days: two more chunks of tree split off, and lots of churning going on to sort contractors access for big stuff coming through today. Windows being taken out again later for it to happen.
(Unhappy trucks with rebuffed drivers, parked outside expecting to offload and go through at 7.00am!)

Moving stuff around has resulted in one big sackful and some small shelves gone, as well as two large sacks of greenery.
Unexpected decluttering of large sack of food to dump after discovering the freezer failed. (fridge/freezer got put outside a couple of times which I suspect didn't help.) Cooked up and ate some of what could be safely salvaged. Wasn't that much and the remainder of that will probably have to be composted.🙁
Resultant water from that discovery cleaned up and semi dried out. (feel like I'm doomed to have wet flooring!)

Tiny spots of rain here yesterday and wind whipped up last night cooling things.
Am hoping it's cooled down a bit for you?

Yesterday: windows came out easily enough this time. Annoyed truck drivers were away by 10.30, but leaving road and pavement blocked with hastily offloaded materials, which combined with noisy trucks arriving early and irate drivers venting, caused grief from opposite neighbors. In turn prompted a nasty domestic from immediate neighbors. 🙄

Better news from it all is contractors lugging everything through decided not to " make your day any worse love" and were genuinely more careful than normal. Damage was limited to ceilings from with a couple of large bits hitting them, including ironically the recently fixed light fitting and ceiling surround, and a couple of smoke detectors.

The wall behind the tarp is grim, combination of earlier water coming in and not being able to breathe, but it's gone back up regardless. They've promised to get boards down and windows back in asap, which is hopeful.
Done myself some damage getting the worst of everything cleaned up (bit more to do still) but feels like small win with contractors seem to be recognizing this as our home a lot more and damage mattering.

Does anyone else have a dp who moans about you being a hoarder whilst contributing greatly to the problem?

Im a semi-hoarder. Have too much stuff in a tiny house. Am willing to part with it but lack time and energy to do so. Went through trauma as a young child and had hoarders as parents (had to remove lots of used tissues after my dad died and the spare room window was accessible only through a
small passage through piles of newspapers; my mum would place huge emotions to things and wouldn’t get rid of even my stuff when I said she could). It’s no wonder I keep help of some things.

DP will happily tell people I’m a hoarder, yet what he doesn’t mention is how much stuff he’ll bring in to the house. I remember one year being presented with a bin bag full of gifts from him for my birthday. This year he gave me 12 books, plus multiple other presents. He’ll buy dd multiple magazines each week, with plastic tat attached to each one, but never throws any of the tat out. If he sees anything in the bin he’ll ask if I meant to throw it out. He’ll also buy her multiples of presents when she can only play with one at a time (two identical kites when she already had one, for example). He’ll moan I have the problem but never acknowledges that he makes it all so much harder.

Can anyone else relate?

@RainbowSlimeLab Yes, my exH. I have mobility problems. He would make a huge song and dance about, eg, 'taking the clean laundry upstairs as you will just leave it lying' then either dump it on the landing (literally as much of a trip hazard as he could make it) or put the wrong things in the wrong persons room. Deliberately. Like mens undies in my dds room. My son's size 12 shoes ON my clean bed. Maybe that's a nastiness problem not a hoarding problem though?
After he moved out he offered to 'store' 30 banana boxes of my things (I'd moved & was getting sorted at other end). I've never been to his flat until last week. All 30 boxes have been emptied out. He threw away a lot of it & kept the things he liked. Photo albums (now filled with his pics), plant pots, pictures on wall, my good curtains hanging, kitchen items. He said: you dont need them, I do (he left me). I would have lent/given if he'd asked. but he just took them.

My house is disorganised because I am disabled & we had 2 disabled kids.
(It would be fair to say I also have hoarding tendencies though)
I am sorry that your H is 'blind' to his issues with stuff but projects onto you x

Hi. Yes can relate, but it's a DC and others rather than a partner.
I also suspect behaviors can be effectively 'catching.'

IME when one person in any relationship is living officially 'incorrectly' it provides excellent cover for others to also do it, without the need to take responsibility.

'Well you keep / eat / buy / fail to exercise / need disability breaks, etc etc SO much, so how can you complain if I do an IMO lesser version of the same thing?"
It's a hierarchy of 'wrongdoing.' and all your fault, if you let it be.
Hope it's ok to say this; please ignore me if not: my instinct is you already have issues about being 'low' in family hierarchies, and he's good with amplifying it.
If I'm right, do you know why it might suit him?

You mention your parents issues. (My parent squalor hoarded) The fact that stuff was background normalized for you may have also left you less judgemental, more understanding, forgiving of foibles etc, and that makes you more attractive initially for those with their own issues. It can take time to realize you attract similar.

Taking responsibility for your own shortcomings and asking others to do the same but expect push back and learning to appear to be / or be dispassionate helps. I'd avoid blame games, it doesn't help anyone, but yes there can be all sorts going on there.

These are my attempted practical solutions but I appreciate there's deeper issues than the practical. (I'm just out of time for anything but with mine)

You mention multiple books plus other presents. Is it worth actually stating what you want as a present?
I really struggle with letting go of anything given to me by those close to me, (childhood deprivation and destruction means I over value nice gestures) so have diverted the excessive 'but it's your birthday/Christmas' giving, into I choose special items and or if I can get away with it, shared experiences.
The theory is to regain control from the flooding you with stuff buyer, and do enough work on myself to in the future get an agreement of one more expensive item, instead of multiple cheaper ones, but if I can't, at least I'm hoarding things I truly enjoy, rather than being only attached because X gave me something.

Do the magazines go to recycling when DD's done with them? Does she want to keep the freebies? I'd try to throw out the magazine tat yourself if you can? Yes he's bringing it in, but if DD isn't attached, it's you it's annoying.
Possibly collect it up, and dispatch to charity shops/ jumble sales as batches.

"Did you mean to throw X out?" Stock answer: "Well if it's in the bin, then clearly yes." On repeat grey rock style, every time. Show no emotion, (only encourages it) and push the subtle suggestion it maybe shouldn't be, would you like to reconsider? firmly out of your head.

Two identical kites when she already has one? Oh lovely she can now involve friends in kite flying, and they have a kite to take home! That's kind of him.😈
I know some of this is easier to say than do, if you're holding on instincts are high.
If he's moaning to you about you having a problem, I'd suggest agreeing and educating him about what makes it worse, and what he can do about it, but be aware sometimes the more that's understood, the more gets used.

I'm on a mission to sort out my issues (running out of time and money not to) and while it would be nice to have co-operation and help, I'm not allowing the lack of it to stop me, even though it causes quite a few unpleasant situations.
Depending how big your issues are, I'm afraid you may have to reach the same place in the end.

Out of interest, do you know if he's buying/acquiring good quality charity shop/freebies or on sale bargains as his gifts and presents?

@medianewbie Ouch! I'm so sorry.
That's definitely sounding like a a nastiness problem followed by an entitlement and nastiness problem.
I'm sorry that's what's gone on, and hope you are able to move forward to better times.

I had a minor partner problem at one point. With a gap between permanent moves, I took up the offer to store stuff at his home. A fixed amount of stuff came in. The deadline unfortunately ended up extended from what I'd hoped so my stuff was there longer than planned and I did add to it over time occasionally, but what I added went on top of what was already there, so the pile went upwards not outwards.

Meanwhile he continued to indulge his obsession with a particular type of bulky objects, acquiring more and more, filling his spaces. When he eventually ran out of room, it was "my fault" for filling his home with my crap 🧐.

My stuff was eventually removed, at which point whenever he called me a hoarder, I agreed and also said "right back at ya!". I pointed out that his acquisitions weren't going to turn back time, however much he wished it so and he was forced to face reality. He wanted to make home improvements so slowly started to de-hoard. I think my hoard (and helping me move it all) gave him a boot up the butt to not turn out the same way.

I've always had hoarding tendencies and it got out of control during the pandemic. I'm trying to regain control now. I'm still aquiring but far less and with greater thought. I've got much better at letting go. I don't post much any more because I'm finding it difficult, having got rid of all the easy stuff (damaged items, clothes that don't fit, using up stuff that was almost used up anyway, selling hobby equipment I no longer needed). There never was any trash. Now I'm left with an excess of stuff, that I want and can use in my current lifestyle. A lot of it new and unused, or in excellent condition and good as new. I just have too much. So it takes time now to use things up, wear them out and let go of them.

Hello everyone. How are you all doing? Again, I'm sorry I've not been around. I think I'm a bit unwell, falling asleep when I sit down. Blood tests on Monday, so maybe that'll show something up.
So, you can imagine, I've done naff all except basics. Washing up, laundry, feeding us. I'm exhausted. 2 weeks until my break from work...
I wanted do much to have some sorting out done before then, but it's not happening.
I'll try to get back on.
night all.

Nice to see you Solo, sorry you're not well. Hope Monday brings some answers. Constant exhaustion makes everything so much harder.
Well done keeping the basics together through it.

Yesterday had to be written of here and mainly spent half upside down trying to get swellings down, acclimatizing to unexpectedly changed medication, and recovering from overdoing it on Thursday.
Can't sleep, so waiting for promised rain and accompanying temperature drop.

Hi solo.

Will comment later checking in because I am overwhelmed. (Bloody exhausted by lack of sleep major contributor)

15 measley sodding minutes is all it took.

No major decisions. (Emptying a bag of shopping ) Picking up empty shopping bags and putting them in the bag in the hall to go to the car. Wiping some of the stuff that was on the floor. Put a t-shirt into hand wash. Seriously lacking in resilience.

Coffee. More story reading. Try again later with 5 minute chunks until something takes my fancy and I can be more productive.

@Elleherd(and others) thanks for your comments. Answering a few of them:

— until this birthday all gifts were new. Maybe on sale, but definitely new. This year he added a couple of second-hand ‘blind dates with books’ from our local cafe after he knew I’d bought a couple anyway.
— Not sure if I’ve given him ideas for me but gift-giving is definitely his love language and whilst he’ll say he’s only buying dd a few gifts this year (as he has said every year so far) I know, come Christmas, she’ll be getting a pile from him. He also can’t say no to her hence the multiple magazines.
— dd is definitely attached to the tat from magazines but I’ll collect it up then bin. I know I should charity shop it but that’s too much effort on top of other stuff in my life
— I’ve been thinking about it , though, and whilst he’d never admit to any hoarding tendencies himself the state of the garden says otherwise. Not only does he have stuff in 4 sheds and various greenhouses but the garden is littered with literal rubbish just lying around. Broken pots, feed bags, tools, a fridge, tables… it’s a large space so it’s not as noticeable as it sounds but still, the difference to what I keep is stark.

@BlackeyedSusan well done for keeping keeping on. It all helps.

@RainbowSlimeLab I asked because I was wondering if he was doing a thing of buying lots of things over a longer period of time when they where on offer as 'bargains' and then getting 'panicky' as to if they felt good enough and adding to them to make sure. It's a behavior I've seen a few times.

If DD's attached the trick is to quietly gather it up and put it where she can't see it, and hold on for a bit and see if she asks for any of it. If she does, do the 'I think I know where that is' routine, and return it to her.

As you may well know, hoarding isn't how much stuff you have or what it is, or what state it's in, but how much distress is experienced when trying to let go of it. So if you're trying to figure out what's going on, the question is why is this stuff there and what's his reaction if you offer to get rid of it for him? (as opposed to telling him to)

Still a physical wreck today, much swelling and and limbs not working.
Broken smoke detectors replaced but that's it.

Hope your legs get better soon Elle.

I did end up more productive yesterday.

All my good food is in the fridge freezer freezer which I can now open. (Small amount of churning: one bag of paperwork went upstairs as got to get ready for holiday this week.) My small freezer is empty of food. Just finishing defrosting. Needs to be cleaned out. (Ex needs to defrost his freezer so we will do a transfer of stuff at some point on a coolish day after our holiday.)

Old paperwork now at the bottom of bin bag (double bagged) old freezer food. Plus picked up the pile of loo rolls to put at the bottom of another bag. (Had to get rid of all the food that never got cooked when mum died nearly three years ago. Just about recovering from grief and a year of insane driving)

One small area of kitchen floor has had first clean. (3 square feet) Made the mistake of looking too hard at the yet to do bit and have come for a coffee. It's quicker to stop a meltdown setting hold than recovering from one by trying to carry on.

3 bin bags sent down to the bins.

Lots to.finish off tomorrow.

Bloody exhausted.

Well done! Especially in holding off and controlling the meltdown and letting go of the food.

Annoyingly can't get swelling downs. Today's just been launderette and listing things I know are in storage that can go. Tomorrows another day.

News this morning; windows are going back in mid week, and we're going to be getting a bit of a break from being site access for the next four weeks. They're going to be mainly using another access point. Yay!
Also contractor numbers are going to be much lower during August while they work on another project, but work will be continuing here, and they're talking about September/October completion. Not so yay.

Definitely got rest of today and tomorrow with no contractor access needed, so trying to grab the bull by the horns and going to storage units and looking at how to move everything forward.
(Feel in such a mess with so many half completed situations, so much in the wrong places, damaged units and contents still waiting to be cleaned and moved, stuff that definitely can go still being paid for sitting waiting for disposal, dwindling finances, and lack of physical fitness, as well as lots of domestic situations that are in desperate need of sorting out.)

All feels scarily out of control, and I'm afraid of trying to make more plans as so many unseen outside factors punched holes into previous ones.

elleherd I'd start with the bit about getting rid of stuff that's earmarked for disposal but still sitting in a storage unit. If you can get that gone, even if you have to pay for removal, that means you'll start saving money each week by not having to rent space to store it.

You must have got quite a lot of the tree chunked up ready for removal already so a bit more time over the summer to do that helps doesn't it, if contractors are taking it once chunked? Means you won't have to pay to have that removed so more money saved. Then the part about if you get enough of it gone they'll use old fencing to put up a fence for you, saves time and money doing that yourself too.

The rest of it is regular decluttering that can be done at any time? So the least priority then?

Priority for repairs I'd guess is the guttering so you can start to address the mouldy wall that's currently under a tarp. Maybe that's contributing to your recent health flare ups? Mould is so bad for us. Also any other water leaks need to be fixed, because it's water that destroys everything else and causes extra work and expense in the long-term. Everything else that isn't water based issues is going to take the same amount of time/effort/money whether it's done now or in a year's time.

So those are the areas I'd focus my efforts on to start with, if you're feeling stuck.

Lots of churning the hoard going on here - frustrating. I've a room that ideally needs one third of the stuff removed to make it more functional. But I don't actually want to get rid of hardly any stuff from there. There's no stuff from elsewhere that can go either, to give space to move anything into, so that's not a solution. Emptied out four boxes today to see what's in there and only got rid of three small items. Can repack them into better organisation categories, so their existence will feel less stressful knowing what's in there and each box the same type of stuff. But it doesn't solve the issue of the room's need for improved functionality.

Is it stuff you can use up blue? If so, if it is organised you can begin using it and making space. And ,as you say, less stressful.

Yesterday:
Lots of washing and holiday shopping. And being sworn at.

Today:
Cleaned inside of loo.
Cleaned kitchen sink and outside of washing up bowl.
Disposed of some defrosted stuff.

Did catch up on some sleep.

@BlackeyedSusan Well done. Sorry to hear the being sworn at on top. Well done for managing that too!

@BlueSummerBaby Thank you. Not so much stuck generally, as overwhelmed, and struggling to prioritize, as nothing is a 'just do X' task. It's all do this in order to do that, and then deal with what that means, but if each piece doesn't work pretty much perfectly, what's the consequences and then what has to be done, and can I on my own, manage that? Just trying to think it through is exhausting tbh.

Not able to do much about the guttering situation as can't be dealt with properly with scaffolding there. Not sure of my ground here but the guttering seems to have been stripped out to manage really tight unsuitable undersized scaffolding.
But when I raised it and mold, with landlords agent, I was reminded their preference is I go.

Resulting mold is concerning. It's within the wall, not controllable by cleaning. Probably not helping but suspect health issues are more trying to push through too much.
Working on the tree, seems to make it worse, think it's the range of movements needed. But needs must to actually get shot of it. (doubting they'll actually put the fence up for me btw, but still being promised the panels)

What you describe about your room and functionality is similar to my storage unit situation, but it's on an industrial scale here. So large quantities of boxes, machinery and materials, have to be be moved out, then in again, without blocking corridors in the process just to get to a point where an equivalent 'three items' can be got to, to be disposed off.🙄(partly why it's still there, as summoning the time and physical energy to get to stuff especially at rear, hasn't seemed a priority.)
I'm afraid it does just come down to stuff has to go, if we want functioning space, or to be getting shot off paid for space. Different scales but same issues I suspect.

Came to the same conclusion about starting with what can definitely go from big storage units. But seems no simple method that doesn't exhaust ltd resources.

Unfortunately not going to have immediate results of saving money each week from it, as whole units have to be emptied, not just not paying for that particular bit of freed up space in them. Have to be able to get rid of enough fast, and make space elsewhere to consolidate stuff while it's gone through, to even start achieving that.

Have looked into paying others for removal. Has to be removed to elsewhere first, so it's all the effort, time, and costs, and then paying extortionate rates on top for the last bit. It's just not financially viable.

We're so tied up with complicated rules here, storage units across boroughs, camera's everywhere, reporting culture, and all very heavily enforced.

I basically need a compliant non wheelchair adapted car and not viably disabled person to be able to even just easily enough dump lots of it.

Yesterday: general tidy up and 'surveying' of big units, and dealing with discovery of mice, (hopefully gone) and the start of moths. 🙄Think I've caught the later.
This morning's gone to dealing with contractors supervisor here and getting agreement to get the windows back in tomorrow.

This afternoon, I'm biting the bullet and going to big units to be dragging large quantities into corridors, trying to get at stuff to go, and photographed to try and get it out, and then getting almost all of it all back in again, but in different order.
Hoping photographing stuff might get a commitment over what two bigger charity outlets will definitely accept and if/when they can accept it. (something causing lots of issues currently)

So doing the thing I hate most: a massive churn!
Can't see another option, so here's hoping doing it does create better options.

I have been chuntering about elephants and one bite at a time.

Freezer drawers have been washed. Drying in the living room.
The water at the bottom of the freezer has been sopped up and the inside of the freezer has been cleaned. Just contemplating whether to pull it out and clean. Probably.

Spun hand washed t shirt. It needs to be sewn, then washed properly.

Hand washed one set of wraps, spun, rinsed, waiting to.spin again but ds is in the shower. The other set is part way through hand washing.

I need to work out what next in kitchen/holiday packing/shopping/fridge cleaning.