If you find it quite easy to run a household, would you mind sharing your wisdom with me?

[Janni]

I'm starting to think it's not about how many children you have (I'm better now I've got three than when I had one), nor how much space you have (I've lived in all sorts of dwellings and struggle wherever I am). I don't think it's about whether you have a cleaner (when I did I half-killed myself shoving things in cupboards and drawers before she came). I've tried Flylady - I just spent even longer on MN.
I know all about decluttering and I don't think clutter is the problem. I'm not interested in a debate on the division of labour between partners. What I want to know is this: What do you say to yourself each day to keep on top of things? How do you do the same things over and over and not give up? How do you stay on top of things even if there are unexpected events that throw your routine out of kilter?

In short, HOW DO YOU DO IT?

calsworld, if no-one is at your house all day do you really need to do as much cleaning?

If I were you I'd have a quick and easy morning routine and one for the evening, for example, mornings,
Get up, have shower, spray bath with some cleaner and wipe down.
Go downstairs and do breakfasts, making sure you put everythign there away and wash the breaskfast bits up whilst kids get their shoes on.
Shove a wash in before you leave.
(Whilst one person is doing this the other cna get the kids dressed and teeth brushed)

Then an evening routine,
Come in, put washing straight in the dryer,Put dinner on, whilst dinner is cooking do a quick run round with the hoover.
Eat dinner, then do the washing up straight away whilst one of you baths the kids and gets them ready for bed.
Take washing out of dryer and fold it, then the house should be tidy and everything pretty much on top of.

Children, no matter what age, should tidy their rooms every day, if they have enough toy boxes it's really simple for them to just throw the toys in them.

Then on a saturday and a sunday morning, spend one hour between everyone doing the extra bits that you may see need doing but hadn't done in the week.
On a sunday evening, get all work/school clothes ready and change the beds.

Also do NOT let anything build up over the w/end, keep the 'as and when' rule in your head, if you use something, put it back, or clean it.

If you had a system like that in place then there should be no need to get bogged down, but it's a definite effort for a while and some teamwork, til eventually you'll do it naturally.

We have dinner at six and by 7:30 all the bits that need doing are done and the DC's are in bed, so if you got in at six and started straight away, you could easily be sat down and have nothing to do by 8.

Just a couple of tips to add (as I'm no saint ).

All our CD's and DVD's have been removed from their cases and filed in those big CD storage wallets. You get about 256 in a wallet I think. Also DH's computer games are in one of these. I have insisted that all videos go in the loft. DH protested, but hasn't actually bothered to swap over the few that he watches, so obviously isn't missing them that much. DH couldn't bear to throw away the cases for the DVD's, so these are stored in the loft too. The CD inserts are stored in the CD wallet, so all those cases were binned. This saves us three massive bookcases of clutter (which the DS's regularly threw on the floor!), and has slimmed it down to three CD wallets.

I experiment with lots of washing systems, but am currently on two baskets. One in my bedroom, one in the kitchen. I throw everything into the basket, depending upon the floor it was taken off on. I do one or two loads per day (sometimes three if doing bedding or towels as well), so it never really builds up. I wash whites, light colours, dark colours, likely to run. I've got a large capacity washing machine which helps. It goes on the line or airer. What isn't dry the next day when the first load has finished goes in the tumbler. I move the airers in the evening next to radiators, so it's usually all dry.

I hoover once or twice a day (but DS2 throws dry cereal everywhere). Even if I can't tidy at the same time, everything gets thrown on the sofa, and I hoover anyway. I'd rather have a clean but messy floor than vice versa.

I am a clutter freak though, and don't have homes for everything. I need more storage furniture. One day IKEA will build a store closer to us, and I will rejoice

VS - wow, that's me sorted out then! Looks great on paper. However, at 15 months I'm not quite sure DS is quite capable of tidying his room up . Sure, I'm teaching him to put things in things as well as taking them out, but he certainly has no concept of doing it by himself

When I get in I have DS with me who needs his supper straight away. And then yes, I could get on with all the jobs ready for a sit down by 7.30 - whilst DH looks after DS or vice versa, but at that point I wouldn't actually have seen my son at all.

So I guess the logical conclusion would be to do it every other day and take it in turns, in which case I would have some time with him on two or three nights per week...but that just doesn't feel enough to me.

I do like the 1 hour Sat/Sun mornings - will try to give that a go. And am trying hard to implement the 'as and when' rule.

And as to the big question of 'if we're not there all day, where does the mess come from', I'm afraid I just don't bloody know. If I did, I probably wouldnt have posted for help.

I think a combination of your ideas to keep it tidy, combined with some outside support, might just allow us to have a clean home and lots of quality time with DS.

Oh - and did I mention the dog that needs walking?

VS - do you both work by the way? I'm just wondering how you stay motivated to get straight on with cleaning, housework etc when you've just got in from full day at work? Is there something that you think of to stay on track?

I do sooo well for a few days, maybe even a week or two, then something happens that disrupts the routine and it all seems to go belly up...

If he is 15months is his room really messy or just toys out of boxes? I find it much easier to do DS's room than DD's because ds's is really as simple as throw it in the box!
You could do that as you put him to bed.
As for the other stuff, you could put it off until Ds is in bed, what time does he go?
The morning routine would be pretty much the same because DS would be occupied by eitehr you or DH getting him dressed so could get you in the right frame for the day, then change the evening routine to

Come in, put washing straight in the dryer,Put dinner on, whilst dinner is cooking spend time with DS.
Eat dinner, bath DS and get him ready for bed, putting his toys in toy boxes when in his room.
Then when you go downstairs one person takes washing out of dryer and folds it whilst the other does a quick run round with the hoover, then the house should be tidy and everything pretty much on top of.

As for where the mess has come from is it stuff you've left in the morning before you go out? Or more stuff that has just mounted up over weeks?
If it's the first then the routine should stop that, if the second then you'll need to spend a day or so sorting the house out to the standard you'd like it to be then implement the routine.
HTH.

Oh, Laura - love the tip re CD's etc. I have an idea that I might just try out with DH.

We have a lovely big storage sideboard type thing from Ikea...which has draws for CD's and DVD's and its full to bursting. But, all our CD's are loaded on the computer (house is wired so that we can play music all round the house from the computer - v cool!) so I could just put all the CD's in the loft.

Why didn't I think of that before? Then, all the DVD's he got for Xmas could go in the CD drawer....

hmmm...I shall depart to see if I can spot other potential de-clutter solutions!

I don't work, no, but when I did my routine was pretty much the same as what I've said, except it was just me and the DC's, I had no help.

I found the easiest thing was to not sit down, because as soon as I did I was not going to get back up again!

If there is a day you really don't feel up to doing it, the main thing I found is the washing up, hoovering and washing can wait for a day, but the washing up can't. It will mount up really quickly and the plates will get things stuck to them as will the pans and you just won't be able to face it, so if you really need to relax, give yourself say one or two days a week when you only wash up and leave the washing/hoovering, say monday and thurday for example, if you've done everything on a sunday you probably won't need to do washing/hoovering on a monday same with thursday. That way you won't feel like you're constantly cleaning.

VS - I think its the latter and we need a blimin' good spring clean. Well, more like a deep clean actually!

It does help, some of the stuff seems really obvious now I've 'talked' about it, yet when you're rushing round from one thing to the next its difficult to see.

Ta V Much.

Oops.
"the main thing I found is the washing up must be done, hoovering and washing can wait for a day, but the washing up can't

VS imagine the state I'd be in without a dishwasher then!

I agree with Anna regarding systems. The parts of housekeeping that I have a system for work well. The other parts do not.

But you do have to be realistic regarding your lifestyle. Prufrock's morning routine doesn't work for me when I have to be out of the house for 7.20 am which is normally the case when I am working. Obviously I rely heavily on the night before for these days. Today I was later because DH was away last night so I had to do the children's breakfasts and childcare run so we were out of the house about 7.45. But in order for 2 children to be up at 7 and out at 7.45 I need to be organised.

So bookbag, swimming bag, football bag, whatever is needed is packed the night before. This is DS's (7) own job although I prompt. I also check DS has a uniform laid out the night before. We also choose DD's (3)clothes the night before because although she always has a wardrobe stuffed full of appropriate clothes the actual choosing process can be quite time consuming. Then the children get up and dressed straight away with me helping DD and doing her hair. While I am doing this (I am already showered, hair dried, dressed and ready for work) DH gets my car out of the garage. Then they go downstairs for breakfast with DH and I go to work. Today I had to do their breakfast and unload the dishwasher, then back upstairs for teeth and 5 mins play while I made the beds. We used to do breakfast than dress but both children are much tidier eaters these days. 3yo DD spills less than 7yo DS. For older children you could use aprons. DS uses one if he is wearing a light coloured top and we are having a tomatoey meal.

I have systems for cleaning, clean upstairs on a Monday (non-working day) and clean downstairs on a Tuesday evening with DH's help. Also for changing beds, ours one week, DC the other week, first thing on a Friday morning (also non-working day). Dishwasher on in the evening, unloaded in the morning, by DH if I am working, by either of us on the other days. Laundry works OK except for putting away.

My problems are with:
deep cleaning
windows
oven
putting away laundry post-ironing.

oh, also have good systems for shopping and menu planning and cooking.

bozza - how about a window cleaner? and when you next buy an oven, buy a self-cleaning one - saves much aggro

On putting away laundry post ironing - I made everyone in our household switch from folded to hung clothes... much quicker to put everything away.

Have a window cleaner for the outside, well worth the £5 it costs me. But the insides rarely get done. The oven is so bad that it is quite off putting to start.

The laundry problem is because I/DH do most of the ironing at night and can't then go putting it away in the children's bedrooms. So we did some on Tuesday evening, so it didn't get put away. Then I was out at 7.20 am Weds, DH was out at 8 with the children and then away overnight, and it is still sat there in my otherwise perfectly clean (was cleaned Tuesday prior to ironing and not been used since) and tidy living room.

Sounds like you could start researching that self-cleaning oven . When I bought mine (a freestanding cooker) nearly 10 years ago my first criteria was that every bit of it should be as easy to clean as possible .

My window cleaner does in and out, and all the inner glass doors .

Haven't read all the thread, but I was a complete slob, then when we moved house and I was faced with just how skanky my house was under all the furniture it horrified me into action, and I was determined to keep our new house cleaner!

I am so sad that I have a rota for myself . It means I know I have to do a vertain thing on a certain day, and I only spend about half an hour a day on housework, but things get done properly, beds get changed regularly etc. then I can feel good about having done that particular thing and enjoy the rest of my time without guilt! On the days I work, I make sure there is nothing too big on the rota!

I don't iron, as a general rule, except for a few things that really NEED done. Once you are in a routine, it just seems quite easy! Trust me- I was the biggest slob ever!

Sounds great to have no ornaments or knick-knacks! DH comes home every day with stuff he has brought from TK Maxx or Matalan, and items ordered from ebay are also constantly arriving. The place is chock full of stuff, making it hard to clean. Any tips for stopping male compulsive shopping?

Clothes putting away - after washing is folded (be that from ironing, tumble drier, or in our case, straight from the airer), sort into people piles. We hang very little, most is in drawers. After sorting by person, I subsort by drawers - trousers, undies, tops etc. Then I carry all upstairs, and it gets put away v.quickly. The problems arise if this method isn't followed for whatever reason. Then all the clothes are mixed up, and people (DH! ) spoil the whole pile to get one item out. Even if it's not put away immediately, a pile just for each person in a convenient place, is much more likely to get put away soon than a mixture of everything for everyone.

My putting away problem is with bedding & towels. I don't have enough space in my airing cupboard for all of our stuff. It's well organised - beach/spare towels, plain pillowcases, duvet sets, sheets, bath towels, hand towels & flannels, but I can never fit the clean bed sheets in. I know that the solution to this is to get rid of my 20 or so 'spare' towels, but I can't bring myself to. Can somebody tell me that it's OK. I just have my mum and MIL in my head, who have towels that are 20 years old. Mine are already 10 years old , but all still in fab condition (I have 15 or so v.good quality white towels for everyday use )

Applepiemummy - take his credit cards away!

Bozza - are there any parts of your oven that you can dishwash? Or consider getting one of those specialist companies in to do it.

Laura, can you get some under bed storage maybe? Put your old towels there?
We have a 'nanite box' in our airing cupboard for the kids PJ's and DS's night nappies so ahd to find room for other things and they are under my bed.

Applepie, what's in the bottom of DH's wardrobe? DP has a chest for all his junk in his.

bozza - my window cleaner does inside and out as well - could you arrange that yours always comes on your non woh days so you can let him in?
And for ovens you need ovenu - they are brillinat - will make it look like new again

laundry putting away - have you actually tried going into their rooms when asleep? You may be suprised and find they sleep through it. otherwise can you incorporate putting away of clothes into the getting clothes out part of your day - I do mine whilst the bath is running and the kids help - I see matching socks as a good mathmetical exercise!

Janni, I have to disagree with you about the number of children not making a difference. I really do think it does.
When I had my first child I already had a routine but it went out of the window and didn't come back in until she was about 3mo.
When I had my 2nd baby, the turnaround to normality was about 8 mo.
This time around my third child is 12mo and I've only just gone back to the routine.
In the time when we hovvered above hovel I tried delegation, FLYlady etc, but my routine works best for me.

Here it is:

Morning- Out of bed, pull back duvets, open windows to air the beds, pick up clothes (DH's) and put in wash basket. I do this in each bedroom.

Head to bathroom, quick wipe round whilst brushing teeth (sink, surfaces and straighten towels (replace if needed).

Go downstairs, open windows, switch on d/w, w/m (loaded the night before) and make breakfast.

Kids and I get washed/dressed, then start work (no school run). I put the washing out or in t/d. and clear away breakfast.

I open the post and sort it into "needs to be filed' or 'recycle' or do something about it'.

I have an organiser on the back of the hall cupboard door and it has 2sections for 'file and to do'.

Dinner is made and cleared straightaway, dirty dishes live in the d/w until it's full. Tea is the same.

Beds are made before lunch is made.

Bathroom gets a wipe over every morning and cleaned once a week.
Utility is the same. W/c are cleaned 2x weekly.

Floors downstairs are swept twice daily, because 3 kids and two cats makes a difference.

Every night the eldest 2 clear their rooms of toys and I do the baby's.

I leave the living room and kitchen clean and tidy every night because it's horrible to come down to if it's a mess.
Ironing is done when the kids have gone to bed (Dh does bedtime) and is put away whilst they sleep.

I absolutely agree with the others who have said everything has to have a place and if it doesn't then it goes out.

Agree with taking away his credit cards! Underbed storage is great - except ours is now full! Every now and then I have a go about the amount of junk, and he does declutter. Think it runs in his family though, FIL buys no end of crap and can't resist a bargain.
Laura032004 - yes it's perfectly ok to get rid of spare towels! I kept some for ages but they never got used, tried to pass them onto Battersea Dogs' Home but they didn't need them. I'm ashamed to say I dropped them off at the charity shop for want of a better home.

TBH the oven is a cheap one which I regret buying so can't justify the cost of nearly as much to clean it. The racks probably could be dishwashed, we do dishwash the grill pan and the hob bits (gas hob). I just need to get myself in gear on that one.

Windows, I am not sure about getting him to come on a specific day. He just comes when he feels like it and does all the street. I think I need a solution that involves me. Or DH! But can't be done when it is dark. And am not sure how often I should be doing them.

Laundry. I could do whatever I liked in DS's room and he would not stir. DD is a much lighter sleeper, but I could get away with putting a pile on the end of her bed, which could be sorted either in the morning, or the next evening in the pre-bath routine. And I do do this sometimes, just need to stick to it. And also I am working on the children putting as much of their own stuff away as they can manage so this is a good time when they are both around, although DD sometimes is overtired.

This is so useful - it's particularly helpful with the specifics, as I just know when a lot of people say 'oh i'm such a slut' what they mean is just like Miaou's 'letting things go' -

"I also let a lot of things go - bathroom gets cleaned once a week, sheets changed once a week, loo cleaned a couple of times a week, kitchen floor swept once every couple of days "

TBH if I managed all that, our house would be sparkling compared to its current state.

[makes yet another resolution to clean more]