If you find it quite easy to run a household, would you mind sharing your wisdom with me?

[Janni]

I'm starting to think it's not about how many children you have (I'm better now I've got three than when I had one), nor how much space you have (I've lived in all sorts of dwellings and struggle wherever I am). I don't think it's about whether you have a cleaner (when I did I half-killed myself shoving things in cupboards and drawers before she came). I've tried Flylady - I just spent even longer on MN.
I know all about decluttering and I don't think clutter is the problem. I'm not interested in a debate on the division of labour between partners. What I want to know is this: What do you say to yourself each day to keep on top of things? How do you do the same things over and over and not give up? How do you stay on top of things even if there are unexpected events that throw your routine out of kilter?

In short, HOW DO YOU DO IT?

A friend of mine always says...."if you can pick it up, you can put it away" so i do always try to put away things i have recently got out.....but not always!!
I always seem to be doing something at home, have abit of a routine, but nothing ever seems to look, shiny, bright and organised like other peoples houses do...very depressing. I sometimes wonder why i bother!!
Also, i don't have enough space for everything to have its 'place' so it is hard, i am sure it must be slightly easier for people with big houses and storage space...... Before anyone shouts at me, i do declutter, when i can!

I must have a male brain then, as I have a really low thresfold for repetitive jobs. When I was working, routine stuff was what got to me the most.
Put me in a crisis with adrenilin running and I'm fine, but day to day slog I'm hopeless.
I have had to learn a few things though, such as keeping on top of the washing, which is easy but its the boring boring boring putting away that gets me every time.
Family planners and whiteboards are used, but do sometimes forget

But really I can do it all fantastically well for say about 3 days and then I lose the will to live, and give up on it all. To me a lot of it seems to be drudgery and I don't drudge well

since you household geniuses are here...

OK, I've been reading avidly since our standards are shockingly low (I posted for decluttering advice some time back and god I'd feel like I was in a hotel if our sheets were changed every week! )

But here's the specific thing: how DO you work out where to put stuff... I mean do you have special places for things and what makes us different that I have batteries, sewing stuff, books strewn everywhere and you KNOW where to put them. I don't mean you know how to tidy them up, it's just that I can't bleeding well decide where they ought to be put away TO.

Does anyone else feel my pain?

That's the key. It's impossible to tidy something if it doesn't have a home. When you've sorted that you're on the way to domestic godessness!!

OK, a challenge

where and how (give me a system) should I keep my:

sewing kit and sewing machine
breastpump and bottles
kids toys - there are many!
incoming letters
kids artwork etc
spare batteries and lightbulbs so I know where to find them
pushchair
many many many books CDs DVDs

I will think of more 'problem' stuff I have but honest you could charge idiots like me for this advice.

slatterns: I challenge you to challenge the tidiers for similar 'stuff'...

Grannyslippers mentioned procrastination and I think that's one of my MAJOR problems. I see something that needs doing...and I go and do something else entirely

few suggestions then

sewing kit and sewing machine SMALL DESK/BOOKCASE IN CORNER OF ROOM WHERE YOU SEW
breastpump and bottles IN KITCHEN?
kids toys - there are many! BIG PLASTIC BOXES IN SOME SORT OF IKEA UNIT. LIMIT BIG TOYS - ROTATE INTO LOFT OR GET RID.
incoming letters GET AN IN-TRAY AND FILING SYSTEM EG FOLDERS/BOX
kids artwork etc ONLY KEEP GOOD STUFF - FOLDERS
spare batteries and lightbulbs so I know where to find them PLASTIC BOX LABELLED IN UTILITY ROOM OR BROOM CUPBOARD
pushchair CAR BOOT?
many many many books CDs DVDs PUT UP SHELVES TILL YOU HAVE EITHER NO MORE BOOKS OR WALLS

tidying is not my problem, it is cleaning.

sewing kit and sewing machine SMALL DESK/BOOKCASE IN CORNER OF ROOM WHERE YOU SEW
breastpump and bottles IN KITCHEN?
kids toys - there are many! BIG PLASTIC BOXES IN SOME SORT OF IKEA UNIT
incoming letters GET AN IN-TRAY AND FILING SYSTEM EG FOLDERS/BOX
kids artwork etc ONLY KEEP GOOD STUFF - FOLDERS
spare batteries and lightbulbs so I know where to find them SHOEBOX/PLASTIC BOX LABELLED IN UTILITY ROOM
pushchair CAR BOOT
many many many books CDs DVDs PUT UP SHELVES TILL YOU HAVE NO MORE BOOKS OR WALLS

oops

Janni
how things work here..
get up go into bathroom after kids and Dh so can wipe round sink before I go downstairs.
Make beds before I go downstairs
Dh starts to feed the boys whilst I unload and reload the washing machine.
I have breakfast then unload and reload dishwasher.
Dh gets DS1 dressed for school whilst I iron the washing from the day before.
Dh takes DS1 to school on his way to work.
So before 9am I have done the basic stuff, without thinking.

I have the morning with DS2 playing and preparing lunch doing 15 minutes housework in a particular area of the house. (I set the timer and never do any more) I have the house divided into 4 zones and they get a week each.. 15 minutes each day.

Get DS1 from nursery school
Lunch
DS2 naps I do stuff with DS1 and prepare dinner
Dinner for the kindlings
after that we have a tidy up toys time.
after boys bathtime I swish round the bath and sink.
Sunday nights whilst the boys are in the bath I change the beds.
I wipe down the sides and set the dishwasher on the timer before I go to bed.

Dull but true. I find by getting the basics out of the way, if we are out all day or have fun stuff we want to do the housework doesn't collapse.

if you do something every day for a month you soon find it feels more like a habit.

Monkeybird, i feel your pain, really i do!
I understand how you can't keep tidy if things don't have a 'place' but in a house with a lack of space this is inevitable i think. I declutter as much as poss but there are some things you just NEED!!!
Also i don't have a utility room, broom cupboard, cupboard under the stairs or even a garage!!! Can you feel my pain now!!!
I think you need to get your possessions down to the basics (well nearly basics!) and then try grannyslippers ideas (sounds good to me!!) I bought one of those cupboards that has loads of little drawers, supposed to be for storage cd's in i think, it looks really nice and i keep all those annoying things in it, like batteries, fuses, lightbulbs, coasters, sticky tape, blue tac, you know all the things you need but don't have anywhere to put (i don't have an office by the way!)

Abi - pretty much from birth. I do have a tub of baby wipes in the kitchen, and find that they can get our most stains from breakfast spillages. And both ds (mufti) and dd (uniform) tend to wear their t-shirts for breakfast and put sweaters on just before leaving house so any wet patches on t-shirts can dry before they are exposed.

Robomop is wonderful - a definate and cheaper alternative to a more expensive roomba of you only have hard floors. I love mine www.paramountzone.com/robomop.htmrobomop

Monkeybird - it's really hard to advise you on specific systems and storage without knowing your house / life. However, you do have to first decide where everything has its home - you cannot run a tidy household if things don't have a place to go.

To take your examples, this is what I do:

sewing kit and sewing machine - sewing kit is in an Ikea storage box in the hall cupboard (which is huge, with shelves) along with another 20 same stacked boxes containing all craft things ie there is one box for ribbons, one box for crayons, one box for paints, one for needles and thread, one for buttons... I don't have a sewing machine (there is a clothes mending / alterations man 20m from my front door and I send all mending/alterations out)

breastpump and bottles - have never had these, always found breastfeeding so much less clutterful

kids toys - there are many! - in children's bedrooms, in boxes in their toy cupboards or on display. Some in the dining/play room, but they get put away and/or exchanged for others pretty frequently

incoming letters - on hall table (me) or on hall desk (my partner)

kids artwork etc - in a cupboard specifically allocated to this in the hall

spare batteries and lightbulbs so I know where to find them - in a huge Ikea storage box in my housemaid's cupboard (there is another box for spare plugs/adaptors/extension flexes)

pushchair - in hall cupboard

many many many books CDs DVDs - I throw away/donate/recycle lots of books and CDs and the rest are stored in two huge bookcases, one in the dining room and one in the hall. Children's books are in bookcases in their rooms

Monkeybird - do you think that your furniture meets your storage needs?

Great thread. I am an organised person in a slob's body, or the other way round. I am messy yet hate mess. (Untidy rather than clean tho I might add...) So I am in the process of instigating various anally retentive systems with the objective of rehabilitating myself and - in particular - bringing up DD to be more on top of maintenance tidying (that is my downfall - I'm great at massive spring cleans with lots of aesthetically pleasing rearranging.)

Anyway will take heed of all advice on this thread. My new theory is that tidying must be done immediately after any activity so as to take place in teh slip stream after teh activity because some how it's so much easier if the momentum is already up, whereas if it gets left you have to rev up all over again and molehills become mountains.

So, one of my new policies is that DD is not allowed to get down from her high chair until I've cleared away her BLW debris. No bath till toys cleared away... kitchen cleaned straight after cooking (before parsley cement dries to chopping board...)

House is still a tip but I thnk we may be getting somewhere... slowly...

My laundry "system" as it is called by my family is new and shiny and i love it! There's one smallish laundry basket upstairs for everyone's dirty clothes.

When it is full (it is not allowed to overflow although the odd 'lean on' to squish it down is permitted) whoever notices takes out the removable bag/liner (which has handles) and drags it downstairs.

Washing is then sorted into the "system" quite quickly immediately : five bags hung on hooks above the machine (we have a tiny kitchen):

darks
whites
colours
dark towels/DS clothes (no fabric conditioner)
white towels/DS clothes (no fabric conditioner)

The bags are the same size as those big tesco reusuable ones which i found out are the size of one load. So when you see a bag is full, you put that load on.

Ooooooooh i love my system....

Also we have cleared out every hidey place for junk/stuff that might be useful and only stuff that we actually want or need is kept.

I feel cleansed.....

Can anyone help with dusting??

I'm hopeless. I really enjoy housework when #i get that energy fix but sometimes I just stand there looking at it and feel so inept and tired, I just walk away.
I'm trying really hard to get some systems in place, but somehow the washing ends up in big heaps, clean or wet or waiting to be washed. The washing up rarely gets done because I can't do it with one hand and can't put baby down in the kitchen any more as he started falling out of the 'kitchen cot' so I am stuck with him unless he's sleeping. (rare)

Other than that it's a case of things not ha\ving a place, so I never know where to put them, having generally too much stuff, and having too many pushchairs (12?) Some of which need to be sold but that is never easy.

Oh and when washing has been hung up and dried it goes into another bag which hangs over the bannister. Whoever goes upstairs next puts it away and hangs up clothes in the wardrobe which are ironed as needed-we had a huge pile of ironing for weeks if not months at a time and our clothes got dusty before we started doing this.

But it never takes more than a couple of minutes because it's generally only one load.

It has led to me and DP both hanging around downstairs for longer than necessary though...

Do everything straight away - much worse thinking about than doing - washing done and away, beds made, sink emptied, etc.

Washing done daily and put away (golden rule as soon takes on nightmarish proportions if left to fester, even clean in piles it will smirk at you as you pass).

Kitchen clean and tidy after every meal.

Living rooms and kitchen immaculate before going to bed - sjust straighten up sofa and magazines etc and make sure nothing still in sink.

Clothes out for the morning

Meal planning

Oh and for wahsing my hugest hint is those colour catcher sheets that mean that you can wash colours and whites together and nothing changes colour. Means no piles of washing waithng to fill up a load....

Are any of you full time working mums? Just trying to gauge exactly how lazy I am...or is it just that I don't have time?

On a normal working day we have all (DH, DS and me) left the house by 8.00 and get back at 6.00. Then between 6 & 7 is time with DS, supper, bath, story and bed.

Some tidying is done in the evenings if we have the energy / motivation (i.e. someone is coming round) or we have to spend loads of time at the weekend doing it when we'd rather be spending time with DS cos we don't see him much during the week.

(And we have loads of 'projects' to do - like lay a lawn, re-fit the bathroom etc)

Am thinking of getting a cleaner...or are we just being lazy??

calsworld - if you are both working full-time, you definitely need and deserve a cleaner .

However, cleaners do not actually set up systems. They execute the system you have put in place and delegated to them. They achieve much more when you have good systems in place.

Anna8888 - I do keep trying to put systems in place and they work for as long as I have super amounts of energy, but it only takes a couple of heavy days in the office, an overnight trip away etc (or three weeks of being poorly as at present) and it all goes horribly wrong.

Oh, and yes, we both work full time, Mon to Fri. Its hard work.

calsworld - it sounds as if you are overburdened . A cleaner (or other services) can really help with that.

I have a cleaner/ironer every Monday, who does all my ironing and some cleaning; a window cleaner (inside and out) every two months; an internet shopping delivery every three weeks for everything heavy and routine; a dry cleaner and clothes mender; etc...