What are the down sides of HE?

[ButterPie]

Can HE'ers please tell me what the downsides are and what they would have done differently? I'm a bit bothered by only being able to find positive stories (apart from the "urgh, HE is weird, your kids will be freaks" opinion, which isn't really helpful)

We are moving nearer and nearer to choosing HE, but it is putting us off that both sides of the debate are seeming to be so black and white about it.

I would actually agree with your entire post MrsW! The only bit I disagree with is the ending. In normal life everyone is equal and you are not doing any favours to your DCs if they always come first. I cringe when I hear parents say 'I devote myself to my DCs'-I think it damaging for everyone.
If you expect thanks from your DCs or for them to be grateful I don't think you should have become a parent! (You might get it but you can't expect it).
However, in the case of HE I would put the DCs first.This is because I have stepped out of my role of parent and am responsible for their education. It has to be better than school or there is no point. At school the DC comes first. The teacher can't say 'I don't feel like doing PE today, I will have an easy time and let them draw pictures' or 'I won't get the paint out, I don't want a mess,'or I need a break-I'll leave them with the teacher next door and pop out for a coffee'! (maybe 40 yrs ago they could but not today!) The time in the classroom revolves around the needs of the DC. Obviously you can be flexible on timing, but having given yourself the role you can't palm them off because you are busy. Or send them to a child minder-if you are doing that you may as well send them to school. (I hasten to add this is just my opinion)

Sorry it doesn't make sense on reading it! I don't agree with your entire post-just the majority of it.

But the point is that you are responsible for your child's education anyway - it's just that most parents delegate it to a school.

It's not consensual living if your child is saying 'I want to go and run around outside' and the parent is saying 'I can't be bothered right now'. What is consensual is the parent saying 'I'm tired right now, can we think of something quieter to do now and do running around outside later? Or is there someone else who could take you out for a run around?'.

Home education is not like school in the slightest (well it's definitely not in our family anywa ). I don't put myself first, nor do I put them first. We all work together to make sure we're all happy.

For instance, I've been really, really ill last week. DH had to take a day off work to look after the kids. The rest of the days my mum came over late afternoon to make tea and let me go to bed early (DH doesn't get home until 7pm). During the daytime, though, the children were happy to amuse themselves, get their own food (mum and DH made sure there was plenty of child-friendly prep food in) etc. because they knew that I needed to really rest. They're all still alive and happy after that experience. They were still learning and living and being happy. They weren't coerced into it.

Also, I have to do some work in the evenings in order to make ends meet. The children don't really like it, but they accept that if I don't, we can't go and visit places they'd like to go to, or have new books as often as they'd like, for instance.

I think I'm trying to say that it all balances out. Yes, a teacher puts the class as a whole first, but he/she can't put the individual children first. When one child needs his help, he can't help them if he's already helping someone else. He has to share himself out amongst a huge number of children, and has only a short space of time in which to do it. He can't possibly meet all their needs. A HEing parent, even a working one, has far more chance of meeting her child's needs, even if they're only together for a few hours a day.

I'm rambling cos I'm knackered and need to go to bed! I hope I'm making sense!

It does make sense. Obviously with the one to one you don't need 6 hours a day, but I think that for a small part of the day the child needs to know they come first and if you are in the middle of something with them you will ignore the phone-or say 'sorry can I ring you back later?'
You should know that you have the time for it and not be harrassed, thinking-who will have them on Thursday (unless it is a one off emergency)-if you have that sort of lifestyle they would be better off with the continuity of school.

Posts with downsides of HE make it seem more like a serious, grown up option. Too much 'zeal of the converted' stuff where anyone writing down a downside is shot down is really offputting, it makes the positive stories seem too good to be true.

It also insults the intelligence of the audience who usually won't read something like 'a downside is HE in some areas can be hard to do without a car' and immediately think 'ah so school is better and no one should be home educated ever ever so there ner' (which seems to be what a lot of home educators think people might think).

I get so irritated too whenever anything less than glowing about HE is immediately countered with a line like 'ah but what about school '. It's not a competition where the advantages and disadvantages of each just cancel each other out so all you have to do is cite a disadvantage of the competition to deal with a disadvantage of HE!

I mean I could write a list of negatives of school as long as my arm but they wouldn't just magically vanish if someone produced an equally long list of negatives to HE. What's on each list is what's important, and people should be free to work out which pluses and minuses of different educational options are likely to be most relevant to them, and then make their own decisions.

Incidentally, my dcs go to school but I haven't just 'delegated' their education to a school, I'm still responsible for it, we just use school for big chunks of it at their current ages. It's not black and white and my children are encouraged to think of themselves as using school for the moment but that that's just one option, one of various options for learning.

I agree with you squishycar and I think it is helpful for Butterpie to have all opinions and experiences. I see it as another option for education and not a competition. I feel constantly misunderstood, I say that I would be worried about how my adult children would view me and it is immediately seen as if I am telling other people they should worry about it. It would be a huge worry for me and people can't eradicate it by telling me that I shouldn't feel like that. I haven't mentioned a big downside for me-which is if I were to die tomorrow my DCs whole life wouldn't fall apart-they would have routine and normality at school. I know I would get shot down in flames for that one, because I would be told you can't live like that! Since I have had a young husband who was hale and healthy one morning and dead by teatime I can't rid my mind of that one-I realise that is my own neurosis and I am pathetically grateful that I have lived long enough to see them safe without me. That is a personal downside for me.
People do their own pros and cons list. As you will see mine comes down heavily in favour of school, other people will come down heavily the other way. Sending my DCs to school is an informed choice, based on my pros and cons, the schools in my area and the personalities of my DCs. I couldn't possibly do it for anyone else or tell them what is best for them.I have not delegated my DCs education-I have spent hours making word games, writing books etc for my dyslexic DS, taking them to museums, art galleries, playing chess , card games, making scrap books etc etc. The school day is short, with 13 weeks holiday and 2 full days a week at home. Education doesn't start and stop at the school gate.
Butterpie seems an intelligent woman-I'm sure she can sift through and see what applies to her and what doesn't.

Whereas for us I think it was a closer-run thing. Quite a bit of agonizing (and researching), which hasn't really stopped even now.

I think if there was a thread called 'what are the downsides to private education?' you would get a very mixed response. Lots from people who didn't do it as well as those who did, some misconceptions that other posters would correct, some anecdotes, lots of direct experience, the reasons why people had done or not done it. All of that would be useful I think.

I wouldn't expect to hear only from people who ultimately did it, even if those people are probably the ones whose replies I'd pay most attention to.

Although I do appreciate the OP asked HEers specifically in the body of her post, if not in her title. As a non-HEer all I can say is some of those mentioned fit with what friends of mine who HE have reported as minor downsides (but not dealbreakers).

You have to bear in mind that you can't give a downside for someone else-we are all so different. For example a downside of school for me would be having to play team games-I loathed them -but my DSs would put them as one of the one of the best things about school!
(I realise that she asked HEers but I do have close second hand knowledge through a friend, and I didn't think that people were answering the question when I started-I was first attracted to it because my name was mentioned-otherwise I don't think I would have noticed).

I am interested in all points of view- I originally posted in education, but got told to try here, so I did

I have joined the local yahoo group, and am going to activities on Wednesday (a ball skills thingy) and Friday (a hands on museum trip) and have registered interest in a woodland playgroup someone is setting up. Hoping to meet some HEdders and get a feel for what it is really like. This thread is really useful too, I will direct DP to have a read as I think he is more sceptical than me.

I think I have said more than enough-so best of luck whichever you decide!

Pisces, you make it sound as though home education has to involve extremes that the rest of life doesn't. as if you have to choose to either dedicate every moment to your children or else you must live so chaotically that you never know if you have childcare for the week. It's like the rest of life, you find a balance that works for you and your family, and you stick to it until it doesn't work anymore or you want a change. It's no different at all for me to mix having DD and working part time when she was 2 or 3. It's always had challenges, but nothing changed because she reached reception age, and my role hasn't changed because she hasn't gone to school, her learning didn't suddenly separate from life and thing have progressed in the same way they always have. I can see things could be different when a family has been used to school, or if you choose a very structured way of educating. But for us it's just living and education isn't separate from that.

Blah, stupid phone deleted my last paragraph. It was very carefully phrased to say that I understand you were just giving a personal opinion, but I wondered why you felt using childcare means you may as well just choose school? As someone who uses childcare, how is that any different to me being a working parent who uses school and wraparound childcare? Either way I use childcare around my educational provision for my DD, perhaps even as a part of it, but it isn't instead of it in either case.

I had intended to stop posting anastasia but since you asked-it is just the way that I would do it. It would be a huge decision and a life style choice.
In my situation I would have been torn in two anyway-trying to be fair to a 14yr old a 6yr old and a 4 yr old would have left me feeling guilty whatever I did and so fitting in a part time job around it would be a step too far! The 14 year old would have had to have spent a lot of time on his own while I was out and about with the younger ones and the younger ones would have spent a lot of time in the car ferrying the older one about. It was much simpler for me to know the older one was catered for at his own level at school-even in the holidays it was nice to know that he could get away to Scout camp for 10 days. With the younger 2 it would have been difficult because they were close in age and DS3 would have outstripped DS2, this wasn't noticeable with them both at school but would have been obvious at home. DS2 and DS3 get on well on the whole but they are as different as chalk from cheese and they developed their own lovely frienships. Everyone did their own thing,at their own level, with their own friends and then they were happy to spend time together-for example DS1 was great with them and would kick a football around and generally entertain them. He wouldn't have felt like that if he had been cooped up with them all day-he knew what hard work they were-I remember him saying he thought he might get married but he didn't think he would have children! DS2 and DS3 squabbled if they had too much of each others company but were fine after a break!
Above all it would have taken me 22years - I can see 5 or 6 would be fun and exciting but not 22!!
I would choose school above childcare because it isn't babysitting. People seem to undervalue the best resource-a teacher. A good teacher is worth their weight in gold!

I didn't mean to drag you back into posting if you were done. I started typing ages before I posted but by the time I got used to doing it on my new phone there were lots of new posts.

I can actually see that meeting children's different needs when you have an age gap that makes one different to the others could be a disadvantage. You'd need to have enough balanced activities and time for making sure the older one didn't perceive themselves as being used to mind the little ones in your situation and I can se how that might take a lot of planning and networking for groups and friends. It probably wouldn't put me off HE in the future (any new babies are going to be at least 5.something years younger than DD) but it might if I was first considering it and didn't have things in place already. Again though, it seems to be a matter of perspective. Because I would tend to view it as a parenting issue rather than one related to HE and think that parenting different age groups has challenges however they are educated.

I can't find common ground on the childcare thing though. Can't see how it's any different to using wraparound childcare, which thousands of families do. Don't get why it would be different if a HE family does the same.

Some school-using parents would opt for after-school tutoring or some kind of more active learning environment, rather than the sort of wraparound care you get with afterschool childcare, which is more kicking around unwinding and playing. Not all school parents are identical either. So any similar parents HEing might feel the same about the most basic kind of childcare, that they'd rather their child was spending the time in a more active learning environment. Then I suppose if you needed enough hours of your child being occupied like that, there'd be an argument that it might as well be school because then you get the teaching as well. It wouldn't make sense if you felt school was an environment actively harmful to learning, though, or if you felt that the unwinding and playing time was the most valuable use of that time for your particular children because they might have been doing things in a structured or intense way when with you.

After being a mumsnetter for quite a (long ) while now I have been converted in favour of HE. It is something I have seriously considered. These are the reasons I don't so you could consider them to be the "downsides".
DD is 3.5 and is due to start pre-school in April. I'm a SAHM and I've had a blast with her the past few years. I am for autonomous education and I love getting absorbed and involved in something she wants to learn. She is obsessed with learning phonics ATM and its fascinating to gently coax her with her learning, to point her in the right direction rather than "teach" her.

Anyway, the reason I won't home ed, the downsides:
I am a.. shall we say, "arty" type of person which translates as me being not naturally good with structure and organization.I feel that she needs structure to her day of the kind that I just can't provide for her. I want us to be up in the morning, dressed, fresh and ready for the day, but if I have no incentive to get out of the door in the morning I would be in my dressing gown all day. Thats just me and my personality and I don't know why but theres something about "being up" for school that really appeals to me. If I was a more ordered type of person this wouldn't bother me and would not stop me from home-edding.

The other thing is I do want to be a role model to my daughter and I want her to use her education to work. I have strayed far away from the path I was put on by becoming a SAHM (my own mother had a "career"). MAybe its in my script to go back to work and I just can't break that pattern, but I really do want to receive acknowledgement for my past educational achievements in the way of work. That plan may not be too successful as I have already been a SAHM for 4 years, have just had a DS and intend to have another child at some point. SO I am already looking at 10 years out of the job market! But this is something I just can't come to terms with. If I was happy in my role as "mother" and homemaker and was not suffering "role strain" as Oliver James puts it, then this would probably not put me off home-edding.

Another reason: I didn't have the best childhood in the world, and school was a respite from my home life. WHile I'm confident that I am NOTHING like my parents, I'm worried that I'd do my daughter's head in if I kept her with me all day. Again this problem is specific to me and obviously not a downside of H-edding in general.
In the same vein being with the same kids all day, day in day out, you do bond with them in a way you wouldn'T if you were HE, I think. I had a very close bond to my friends in school, although I realise now that there was a lot of other tremendous stresses for me, such as bullying, that could have been avoided if I'd been HE myself.

I will say that if any of my children were very unhappy in school and I couldn't find another school for them I would take them out of school in a heartbeat.

I've still got a few years with my kids. IN the country I live in school starts at 7. Pre-school is not compulsory. I'll see how DD gets along. They say boys need their mothers for longer so I may not start DS in pre-school until he's at least 4. A good friend of mine here has kept her youngest son out of pre-school an extra year; its quite common here for kids not to go to pre-school at all and just to start school at 7 straight from home.

'I can't find common ground on the childcare thing though. Can't see how it's any different to using wraparound childcare, which thousands of families do. Don't get why it would be different if a HE family does the same. '

Because they went to school I didn't need child care. I knew that they were happy, learning things at their own level and I did all the boring things like supermarket shopping while they were out, and I worked while they were out. I had an arrangement with friends if anything overlapped. When they got home at 3.30pm we were free to do all the things HEers do. It suited me, I wouldn't have wanted them home in the day and then having to use child care to work outside school hours.
It would be interesting to know if anyone actually HEs with an 8 yr gap (and no DCs in the middle). If I had my 10yr old at home with my 2 babies it would really have spoiled the time that I had with them because we couldn't have done all the things you do with that age. The 10 yr old had already had all that time with me. I found that we didn't fit into groups. Groups for the younger ones didn't want a large, energetic boy around and groups for the older one weren't used to being restricted with toddlers. Even had I been keen I don't see how it could have been done-without a lot of marking time, or DS1 spending a lot of time on his own.
I would enjoy the primary stage, but I couldn't do secondary. I am an arts based person, DS1 did Chemistry at university-a subject I dropped at 14 yrs (with relief). He needed a teacher with a degree and a passion for the subject. With the best will in the world I can't 'felicitate his learning' on that one. DS3 is an artist and I am utterly hopeless! I don't see the point in paying for a tutor when you can get excellent teaching for free and do it with others who are keen.
I don't think that DCs should start formal learning until about 7 yrs, so I can see lots of advantages in the early years but a steep decline after that-in my case.

Quick points of information:

school is childcare. A good school is many other things too, but bottom line, state school is free at point of delivery childcare. By definition. Since parents don't go to school with their children...

in the best schools there is indeed excellent teaching. But it is anything but free. Free at point of delivery, only.

I know it's a tad pedantic, and I don't mean to pick holes at all, I just think it bears pointing out that every tax payer is paying a bit towards state schools. There's nothing free about them at all - in fact, one might say (if one was being really really provocative) that anyone of low income who puts their children in state schools is in fact freeloading off tax payers with high incomes and/or not children. I write this in a spirit of

As for mixed ages - our local regular HE meet has children from babes in arms up to 16+ year olds. The littles are in the sandpit, the 8 year olds are up on the climbing equipment, the 14 year olds are holding private meetings in corners... something for everyone

hang on, anyone who puts their children in state schools is freeloading off me since I pay tax but don't use the schools!!!!

I do know someone with a 14 year old and a 5 year old who HEs both. They get on great but she does admit its like having two only children sometimes and hard work to fit in everything they all want to do at times.

I know I am paying taxes but I pay them whether I use the schools or not so to all intents and purposes it is free! I don't get a bill each term or pay for each session-I certainly would for any other childcare.
I bet it is hard work anastaisia-something I would be prepared to do if I had an unhappy child but not when they all enjoy school!
I'm sorry ommmward but I couldn't stand that sort of mixed group-as a 16 yr old I used to go from school to a local nursery to help for the morning but that was my choice and I wasn't taken by my mother. I can see that it would suit others, but as a teenager my DS1 would have hated it.
Anyone explain how I take sciences and maths to A'level without paying for a tutor or having to go to an evening class?

@piscesmoon: You don't 'teach'. My DC have used OU. Others go to college at 14 or 16 and do exams there. Others study by themselves for GCSE and A levels.

I think part of it is that very few EHEers go straight into the exam stage (and I accept that it can be hard for those who do). Everyone else grows into it with their children and so they find the way that works for them (which rarely means 10 GCSEs in one year).

You also said "they were close in age and DS3 would have outstripped DS2, this wasn't noticeable with them both at school but would have been obvious at home." I'm surprised - I'd have thought it would have been more noticeable if they were in school, where they are regularly measured and the whole structure separates people by age, regardless of ability.

My DC are 2.3 years apart and do things differently. DD started to read at 2 and was competent by 6. DS did not admit to starting until he was 8 but was competent at 9. From about 5, however, he could spell words for DD. Last time we checked (at 12 and 14), they had the same (adult) reading level. Because they were not in school, there was no competition and no comparison. We all simply did the different things that interested us in our own way, with no suggestions about the 'right' way or order of learning.

When you're at school you stay with your class regardless of what you can do (one of the downsides in some ways). So a six year old would always be with the six year olds and it wouldn't show as much that he might be well ahead of an eight year old brother, because the eight year old brother would always be two school years ahead even if within his class he was in groups that were doing easier things than the younger child. At home the younger child doing things that were harder than the older child would be much more obvious. Not necessarily a terminal problem of course, it would depend on the child and how you handled it, I expect.

ommward, since you probably get a great deal more use out of museums and galleries by being able to go more often and spend more time there in quieter circumstances, arguably you're doing a bit of freeloading yourself . (Non-financially you definitely are freeloading if you're one of the people who likes to talk about how great it is to visit places in termtime when they're quiet and you can have them almost to yourselves - some of the richness of your HE experience is then directly dependent on most people helpfully deciding not to do it, isn't it? )

The reason I think the age/different abilities thing is less of a problem for EHE is definitely because you have a choice of how you handle it. IME, schoolchildren (esp from later primary) are practiced at spotting levels and differentiating people in a "pecking order". In EHE, especially if you do not do workbooks (as we did not), there is no easy way to differentiate. DD went through a short phase around 6yo of finding it irritating that DS would answer when she asked "How d'you spell ...?" but it did not last long and I never made a big deal of it. It is easy to say that different people are good at different things, irrespective of age. After all, we do not expect all adults to be able to do everything the same and we can enjoy doing things at which we are not "the best".