What are the down sides of HE?

[ButterPie]

Can HE'ers please tell me what the downsides are and what they would have done differently? I'm a bit bothered by only being able to find positive stories (apart from the "urgh, HE is weird, your kids will be freaks" opinion, which isn't really helpful)

We are moving nearer and nearer to choosing HE, but it is putting us off that both sides of the debate are seeming to be so black and white about it.

I've been working out why I am so defensive.

If someone says "what are the downsides to living your daily life as you do?" and someone says "these are the downsides to my daily life" I think "oh you poor love".

If someone says "I don't live this way, but I think these would be the downsides" or "these are the downsides for some people I know" I get all prickly and think "who are you to judge my life? I don't even recognise your description of it and I certainly don't recognise the downsides you portray". My bad.

But, at root, it's because I tend to be someone who tries to work with my family to solve problems as they arise. So if there are routine downsides to the way we are living, then I really ought to be trying to solve them, not posting to a bunch of total strangers. "Oh, HE is great except my child really wants to learn French and I can't help" well, get off the internetz and find some friendly native french speakers who want their ironing done in return for conversation lessons, yk?

So this would be my considered answer to the op: if a HE lifestyle would suit you and your children better than school, for whatever reason, then go for it. There will be unique challenges to be overcome for your family; the more pro-active and open to ideas you are, the more likely you are to find yourself on a thread in 18 months time fruitlessly racking your brain for some other newbie who wants to know what the downsides of HE are.

I think part of this can be that many people who come to the possibility of HE (I don't know the OP's backstory) have had a really tough time with bullying or unmet SEN or child not fitting in at school or mean teachers or child not finding the pace and style of their school optimal for them. It may well have been a stressful time, with tears before bedtime and clinging at the school gate, and banging your heads against The System to try to get the help you need. Life has been one battle after another. And when you start to HE you just opt out of all that stress. So for anyone who has done that sort of opt out, frankly, it would have to be a blardy massive downside, like "oh, now we HE we have to have our daily lesson plans personally approved by Ed Balls" to even come close to feeling like a downside compared to the 5-year battle for diagnosis/statement/copy of school's anti-bullying policy etc. that the family has already undergone.

Ommmward - you are right, for me anyway, it would have to be a bloody big down side. If I am ever having a bad day, I just think back to my ds aged 5 and a half, crying uncontrollably everyday and saying he wished he was dead because he was so unhappy at school, and the daily dread of going to pick him up from school and being called into see the teacher about his behavior everyday with me getting the blame for it. Still makes me shudder.

I can see why you get defensive, you have so much bound up in it. HEers are there from all walks of life and for all reasons. Not everyone is starting with a stressed child, they simply never went in the first place. It isn't only the bullied who leave, very often it is the bully because the parent won't accpet that their DC is a bully-which is why you can get the bullying and violent behavious mentioned by lolapoppins because they still don't address the problem.
It would be nice if OP came back with her thoughts.
I have thought it much more helpful since people started posting the downsides. If I were to do it I would want the 'warts and all' picture. Painting an idealic picture of family life where everyone is motivated everyday, they fit into a wonderful society of mutually supporting HEers and their DC eventually trots off to Cambridge to do a chemistry degree isn't very helpful to me, because my DCs are not academic enough for that and they squabble and would play computer games all day, if given the choice, and I have problems fitting into ready established groups-it would be very easy to feel a failure. Knowing that people can feel fed up, have an off day and not necessarily get on with other HEers is far more helpful IMO.

Sorry about all the mistakes-written in haste-I should be cooking not wasting time on here!!

It would also be really good to hear from people who H`E because they think it;s the best thing to do rather thsn because it's the best thing to do in the circumstances.

Hi,
This thread has been very useful, because it seemed too good to be true, iyswim.
My backstory - I have a 2.11yo DD and a 3mo DD so neither of them have ever been to school, although DD1 has been to nursery for a while while I studied for a bit. She seemed to enjoy it, although when she saw me come to pick her up she was always overjoyed, and we did have some worries about her having apparently spent afternoons watching disney princess films (she wasn't yet 2 when she left), but generally the nursery was ok. I was quite happy that they were looking after her well and that she was having fun.

However, I am now a sahm, and absolutely loving it, DD1 is really flourishing and we are doing loads of things that just wouldn't be practical in a nursery setting. She is learning about the world so fast, and my teacher friends keep saying that she is a lot sharper and more talkative and confident than most of their pupils. I personally don't think she is particularly advanced or anything, just that she is used to talking to adults and being included in conversations and decisions. Seeing her start to make little steps towards reading and writing has made me consider her formal education.

I should come clean now that I personally HATED school. I was an odd child and just didn't fit in. My mind didn't work in the way school needed (I asked too many questions and wanted to go into things too deeply and would get obsessed with one subject until I had really found out about it, then I would move onto something else. I am also slightly dyslexic and dyspraxic, but was always a very good reader and read so much in my spare time that I annoyed the teachers. Some things I was excellent at, others I just couldn't grasp, for example I found algebra pretty obvious but still don't know most of my times tables) I had a pretty bad lisp and was pale and skinny as well, so was a prime bullying target. By the time I did my GCSEs, I was being kept apart from the other children for some lessons (which I spent helping teach special needs children to read, after completing the set work I was behind on in class in about 10 minutes, as soon as I had less distractions). There are still some woeful holes in my general knowledge that I am working on filling.

The other thing is that I worry about the teacher - I know they will have a degree in education, but I am acquainted with quite a few people who have qualified, or are qualifying, as teachers, and most of them would make brilliant babysitters, but I wouldn't want them on my quiz team, iyswim. I seriously hope their facebook updates don't indicate their spelling ability.

Our main reservation are the same ones we would have about private school - that it would cost too much, the children would only meet privileged children and that it is not an option for everyone, and so unfair. Otoh, we are definitely not rich (DP on minimum wage, me not working, rented house, no car, no holidays apart from visiting family elsewhere in England, etc) and we manage to keep up a fairly good standard of living so I don't think money would be much of an issue (ask me again if the Tories get in though).

Am I being selfish though? Schools might have changed, and there is no denying that staying at home teaching the girls would be a lot nicer for me than going back to wiping old people's bums 40 hours a week. Plus it is only because me and DP have quite a high level of education (although not so much formally) and excellent family support that we can even consider HE, so shouldn't we just be working to help the local school on the PTA or something?

seeker - my DH and I are now very strongly thinking of HE because we think it's the best thing to do.

As our DCs are preschool age, there are no 'circumstances' as yet (although they are both summer babies which was the issue for some of my friends who HE). But we had a big talk yesterday and realised we have the same worries about the state of education, so it's quite likely we won't send DCs to school (but they will be going to nursery).

I s'pose what it boils down to for us is the one question "can we do a better job of educating our DCs than a school can?"...."erm... we think so!" and by educating, I mean socially/emotionally as well as academically.

Needless to say I can't comment on actual downsides yet! Been enjoying this thread though, as we do have a few worries and it's great to read real experiences.

MMM we are thinking of sending DD1 for her mornings at the school nursery, just to see how she takes to it, as well as it only being part time. Still 50/50 on what we will do at the end of that year though.

Seeker - we HE as a default position. We think it's best for our children. The downsides of school outweigh the downsides of HE a million to one for us.

Butterpie - our children meet way more than just priveliged children (financially speaking). We only have holidays because my parents rent big houses when they go on holiday and invite us along (although I think it's just a ploy to spend big chunks of time with their grandchildren! ), otherwise we go camping. Our car is crap. Relatively speaking, we are well off, but I think far worse off than people think you need to be to HE IYSWIM.

When we first learnt about HE, we were thinking like you, that it would be fun. We'd get to spend more time with our children, and enjoy being a part of their learning. So we read more about it. My mum (a primary school teacher) got me to read John Holt, which really decided me. Then I read John Taylor Gatto and Ivan Illich. Then I saw my children doing what you're seeing your DD doing - thriving and learning and being self-confident etc. And spent time with other HE'd children - teens as well. Then I read books that were just confirming what I realised I now knew - books like How Children Learn At Home by Alan Thomas and Harriet Pattison. I read blogs by home educators - structured and autonomous. I just have so much evidence now that HE is the best thing for our family that I can't even begin to imagine sending them to school.

Through spending time with other HEors, I've now learnt more about consensual living (also known as non-coercive parenting or taking children seriously amongst other things) and consequently feel that school, actually, could be pretty damaging to some children. People don't like to hear this, but I do think now that, for children with parents who are interested in them, like spending time with them, engage with them and create opportunities for interesting activities etc., school is at best a waste of time and at worst very damaging.

Clearly for some children it's essential, helpful and it's the only chance they have to survive, let alone thrive, but for many it isn't.

We can learn in 5 or 10 minutes at home what it would take several lessons to teach in school, because we can do it when it's right for the child, so it gets absorbed immediately IYSWIM. A fifteen minute indepth conversation with a child initiated and led by them will create far more real learning than a term of planned activities on a topic.

School just seems like such a waste of time, when you look at it like that. I can't think of anything good a child would get from school that I can't find a way of providing 'at home'. And the children are so free. I find it so depressing when I hear parents saying 'after school, he's got this club, and then this club. He doens't want to do club A any more, but I told him he must do something, I'm not having him hanging around the house doing nothing'. Why not? I want to scream! Why can't he hang around the house doing nothing? That's where the best ideas and imagination comes from, doing nothing; being bored.

My children watch something on tv, or have a conversation about something, or read a book about something, and then spend hours and hours playing really indepth games about what they've learnt about. They're really solidifying their learning by playing it out. How would they have time for that in school?

Ok, I'm rambling now, and I'm aware I'm going to have pissed off a lot of people, but if I didn't feel strongly that HE was best for some pretty valid reasons, then I wouldn't be investing so much in it (financially, emotionally and in terms of time and energy).

Actually, I am better placed right his second to talk about the down sides of home ed. Bearing in mind we are very formal and structured.

At half past nine, ds is sat at the table doing English. He is working from a year 2 letts comprehension book, this page is about Reading three poems and answering questions about them. We always do a lesson from this book for English lit on a mon morning, as I plan a terms work in advance. Mondays are mostly English. Ds is 7 and requires no help and it is something he enjoys doing. After this, he will do a page of creative writng, which again he enjoys, and apart from maybe needing help with spelling a coouple of tricky words he will het on with writitng a short story. Then he will read a couple of chapters of his book to me, then do a session on mathswhizz. Then we will have lunch, then he's off to a friends birthday party at one, (usually we would maybe see a home ed friend or he would work on a history or geography project of we were at home) then we are off to his after school activity.

I am sat behind him on my i phone googling pictures of Brandon Flowers, bored out of my mind. That's the down side for me. I know some people would tell me to take a more autonomous approach, but this is how ds learns. He enjoys hiswork, he likes having a time table, but I sometimes get bored.

But, when he was briefly at school ( and miserable) I was going insane with boredom - I don't work, live in a stupidly rural area and didint know another soul here. If I were the sor of person who had a life of meeting up with friends while dc were at school, or worked or studied, I think I would have found this life very, very hard So, at least now, I am doing something productive with my time, even if it is only trying to help him outbwith words even I have to sometimes look up in a dictionary.

I know a lot of home educators who pain such a rosy picture of sunshine and flowers ans skipping through feilds and never admit to being a bit bored. But the reality is, it can be quite mind numbing. Not for ds, this is how he works, but for me.

I am sorry for all the typos - am typing on an I phone and I couldn't scroll down to correct them once I had previewed!

If you are enjoying living every day with your daughter, doing things with her and seeing her learn and flourish - JUST KEEP DOING IT ! Why try and fix something that isn't broken?

Regarding your reservations: "that it would cost too much, the children would only meet privileged children and that it is not an option for everyone, and so unfair"...

1. it costs what you spend on it. I don't believe there's anything in a workbook that you can't find for free online, printable or interactive. HE groups sometimes charge a nominal fee of £1-3 per family - I think most people could find a way to find this in their weekly/fortnightly budget. There are hundreds of free museums, exhibitions, parks, gardens etc around the country.

2. I wouldn't call the majority of the HE children I've encountered 'privileged'. Whilst it is probably true that a majority of HE families have a least one wage-earning adult, there are also lots of self-employed people (my husband included), single parents, people who don't own their own homes etc. Many people who HE consider it worth making financial sacrifices for - we're certainly not all swanning around in Boden and pearls and Landrovers (disclaimer: no offence intended to those who do )

3. that not everyone is able/willing to do a particular 'good thing' for their family (and I am one of those who Seeker mentioned, who believes that HE is, for the child, in most cases, The Ideal Option) is no reason for you NOT to do it if you are able! If you do as good a job as you can of bringing up your children, society as a whole will benefit - and they will benefit immensely as individuals.

Go for it!

On the "not everyone can/wants to HE so we shouldn't" anxiety:

Just by being HEdders, we bring the fact that school is not compulsory to the attention of everyone we meet in school hours. That's a whole lot of people who, if their preschooler is thriving at home, or their schooled child is not thriving might be open to considering this wacky alternative that ommmward's family are clearly all flourishing with.

So I'd almost turn it around: you have enough financial and personal confidence to go against the grain in this way, and by doing so, you do an immeasurable service to an unknown number of children whose would otherwise never learn that there was an alternative to trying to solve "school refusal" by forcing/manipulating the child back into school.

I love the idea that HEdders are wealthy. I haven't met any myself! The ones I know are all making ends meet on one salary, buying stuff in charity shops, handing down hand-me-downs...

Just like anything else you do for your children because you think it's in their best interests - remember that they won't necessarily thank you for it later.

(downside experienced by an HE-er with now-adult children)

Your last comment is the one that would really worry me about HE TrillianAstra. The proof of whether it worked is what your DCs think as adults. You can't assume that because you wanted to do it and they enjoyed it at the time that they will think it was in their overall interests. I went to a fantastic, rural, 3 class village primary school and although I adored it, I think that a large primary school with hall, choir, gym equipment etc would have prepared me better.
I prefer to have the 'takes a village to raise a child' approach so that there is a huge range of possibilities and it doesn't all hinge on me. Mine are older now and a 20 something year old doesn't think the same as they did at 5, 10 or even 15. My 5 yr old thought I was wonderful and he was going to live with me for ever-I still have a wonderful relationship but he is very honest and we don't always see things the same way.

I don't have the confidence in my parenting that 'I was right'. For example I think that I was brought up by consensual living (although it didn't have a label then), and it is actually very hard on a sensitive child-sometimes I would just rather my mother had said 'do this and do it now!'
I can see that your upbringing has given you huge reservations about schools Butterpie and I would say that you were a child who was far more suited to HE.(If I had a child like you I would seriously consider it-purely on the way your mind worked) You just have to remember that your child isn't you.

I would suggest that you just visit a few schools now, without your children. Make an appointment and go on a normal school day-don't just go to an infant school-make sure you see the juniors. Go to several. At least you will be knowing the options. If you do decide on school don't think you don't need to go again. Schools can change so much, even in a couple of years!
Good luck with whatever you decide-I'm glad that it turned out to have all sorts of advice rather than the usual slanging match!

"The proof of whether it worked is what your DCs think as adults."

??? That is completely illogical.

Pisces, what about TrillianAstra's comment "worried you"? Obviously most parents do what they think is in their child's best interests; obviously the child doesn't always agree with the parents' decision; obviously, as adults, those same 'children' may have changed their views on their parents' behaviour, either to approve or disapprove more than they did as children.

The only measure of whether HE can be said to have 'worked' is the extent to which the hopes and expectations of the parent, for their child, have been fulfilled. "What your DCs think as adults", quite apart from coming too late to be of any use, has nothing to do with whether HE was 'successful'. That judgement may only be made by the parent, because it was their enterprise.

Please don't deliberately mis-interpret me: I am not saying that a child's opinions (about HE or anything else) are irrelevant or to be ignored; I am saying, however, that parents need to take decisions regarding their children's up-bringing based on their own opinions, first and foremost. They are the adults; they have the experience, the knowledge, and hopefully more objectivity, than a child is likely to have.

It really annoys me when people go on about HE as if it's cruelty to children unless the child loves everything about it from start to finish. Life is not like that. Parenting (in my house) is not like that. What we think our children might think of us later on is no basis for any sort of parenting decision IMO.

And what about the child who loves HE but grows up into an adult who feels that it pandered to all the 'wrong' sides of their character?

And are you saying that any adult who wished that they hadn't had to go to school as a child renders the parent's decision to send them as WRONG? I doubt it.

Grr...

She put it as a downside CSLewis! I inferred it had caused problems. I know an adult who was HEed and is so bitter she left home at 16 to get an education.She is now a University lecturer with 4 children and scathing about her mothers views. It would worry me. You only have to read posts on Mumsnet to see how many parents don't get on with their own parents. I expect that we might find the parents were lovely reasonable people. Of course your DCs may well think it was the best thing you ever did. It is the fact it is out of the norm-I can justify school in that both DH and I needed to work and we couldn't juggle things.
I know you are not going to agree-I did say it would worry me. It would be my main reason for not doing it.
I have now got to the 'proof of the pudding* and they were happy with their education and they have all got to where they want to be.
It is quite fascinating-they don't remember things in their childhood that are important to me and they remember things that I had forgotten. They have strong views. When they are adults they see you as you are. You can't mould their views. It is one of those things you find out eventually.I wouldn't want to be radical and outside the norm-but I dare say I'm cowardly.

And how many adults do we know who hated school, really, really hated it? How many children find themselves labelled as 'school phobic' because they hate it so much? How many children commit suicide each year because of how much they hate school?

We can only do the best for our children and, personally, I think home education, if you have any desire at all to do it, is safer than school. Spending so much time with your child, you are far more likely to see how happy or unhappy they are and in a far better position to do something about it asap - and maybe that will mean sending them to school.

Whatever you choose, IMO, the important thing is to listen to your child and that doesn't just mean to what they're actually saying, but what they're doing, how they're behaving. Children tell us the biggest things just through their behaviour, but we often dont' stop to listen to it, and leap straight to discipline to try to 'sort it out'.

Children who hate school start bed-wetting, getting nightmares, messing around, bullying. If your child is showing any adverse signs of stress, you, as their parents, are responsible for finding out why and donig your best to change things. Negative stress is bad for adults, let alone children. Of course an adult who was home educated and who wasn't listened to would blame home education, just like schooled adults would blame school. Really you ought to be saying to your parents 'why didn't you listen to me?'.

Just thought of a rather more concise way of putting all that:

Basically, if you say 'I don't think HE is a good idea because I know a person who wishes he hadn't been HE'd' then, turn that around. 'I don't think school is a good idea because I know hundreds of people who wishes they hadn't been forced to go to school.

Seriously, it's really not a rational argument for not home educating (sorry Trills!)

Economically most children have to go to school-(not to be greedy-just to pay the mortgage). Lots of people who have DCs would climb the wall if they were at home with them all day (this doesn't make them worse parents). I wanted to be a mother -I didn't want to be their educator all day, everyday.If someone has trained to be a doctor they are not going to want a huge career break (22yrs in my case)to HE their DCs, if they were interested in education they would have most likely trained in it. It doesn't make you a better parent because you devote yourself to your DCs full time. The majority of children have to go to school-it is just a fact of life. Their parents are just as caring and just as successful.
Obvously if your child starts wetting the bed and showing distress and having nightmares you would have to listen and do something. Luckily I was one of those children who cried if I was ill and couldn't go. My children have been very happy,made lifelong friends and had lots of opportunities like caving in Wales, a French exchange, visit to Russia etc so it hasn't been an issue.I also have the advantage of knowing that they wouldn't have wanted to be HEed-they are old enough to look back.
I think that you are still misunderstanding me-I should stress it is one of my downsides. I believe it, from her post, to one of Trillain Astras-I don't expect it to be universal.I don't expect everyone to be like my children.
My friend who had to leave home to get her education is reconciled with her mother, who still believes that she offered a wonderful childhood and gives advice on bringing up her grandchildren-quietly ignored!

No problem MrsW - I wasn't putting it forward as a rational argument not to do it, just something to bear in mind. The OP was asking for potential downsides. Like I said, it's something that applies to all parenting decisions.

I know that you and your children enjoy HE, but if you felt that you were making sacrifices in order to HE and putting their needs above your own it would be important to remember that you can never be certain that your future grownup children will appreciate any of it.

Some parents may choose to HE by having one parent stay home with the children full time for the duration. But it really isn't the only way.

In fact I would say that nearly half of the HE families I know have some other arrangement. And that's even with the fact the I have a 4 year old, so many of the people I spend time with still have younger children who would be at home anyway.

I don't want to spend all day, every day with my DD or any other person. But I don't find I need to in order for her education to be 'home-based' (but not always at home )

I can't think of any downsides. But we are only 6 months in.

Though if I was doing this mainly myself (with DH at work from 9-5) then it would be very different, I'm sure. I don't drive and I'm a bit shy. While I could still HE it would be harder (on me, iykwim). As it is DH is here 24/7 and he drives and is definitely NOT shy. We both have interests and strengths in different areas so feel we can give a nice rounded education to our DCs.

But that is me. Others here do the main part of HE themselves (either a lone parent or with working partners) and do a fantastic job of it.

It depends on how you want to do it. If I were to do it, the DC would be central and everything work around the child. I wouldn't want to work the DC around other commitments-unless I was having to respond to school phobia, where anything would be better than school.

I agree, Trillian. I think that self-sacrifice as a parent is highly damaging to all the relationships withing a family. But also self-sacrifice as a child too, or coercion on the part of the more powerful parent. That's my view of parenting, though, and I know not many people share it. But it does mean that actually I take myself, my husband and my children equally seriously when it comes to any decisions, big and small, and I hope they do the same - well, I'm at least trying to encourage the children to as far as possible, and I know my husband does already.

I think a reluctant HEor would do a very poor job.

And, actually, Pisces, I disagree that the children should be central - they should be as important as the adults, but not more important. Consensual living (or whatever you want to call it) isn't about putting children first, but about all working together to find solutions that everyone is happy with. I think that if you always put your children before you, you would burn out pretty quickly and would not be doing the family any favours at all.