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Home ed

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'Home Schoolers should be treated robustly'

232 replies

maverick · 20/07/2009 15:39

If you scroll down to igb's posting on this thread/page you'll see he has strong views on home education. He believes that 'the purpose of education is to protect children from their parents' prejudices', and therefore, 'Home Schoolers should be treated robustly'

Any thoughts?

www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10249&start=75

OP posts:
thedolly · 02/08/2009 13:31

Flamongobongo - the autonomous learning that you have written about takes place in our house all the time and my DCs are not HEed.

My DD(8) has also played violin and piano at school concerts, played a wide range of team sports and been in numerous school productions. All these experiences have been real and tangible to her. The learning outcomes of such experiences are very valuable and diverse. I think it would be difficult to reproduce the many intricate 'social' interactions alone in an HE environment.

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:31

I think the nastiness in schools is a very good thing tbh - life isn't always nice and we all need to learn to stand up for ourselves when people aren't nice to us or life doesn't treat us well.

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 13:33

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ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 13:33

but the nastiness is selective, isn't it? Some people for whatever reason get singled out and the others learn to be passive onlookers on the whole.

I don't think it is a great lesson for life really.

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 13:34

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BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:35

No, of course not. But bullying and nastiness are not synonymous.

I hate hate hate the idea that childhood has to be some idyllic preserve where everyone is nice and children can do whatever they please.

ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 13:35

I think too many people come out of school "shy". I am not sure that's a success story

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 13:36

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FlamongoBongo · 02/08/2009 13:37

Oh FGS Anna!

HE children get plenty of opportunity to interact with strangers and have conversations with adults. The point is they are not forced to do it!

They do not live in a bubble, they go shopping, they go to the doctor's, they go to home ed groups, they go to dance classes, they go to summer schools, they go wherever they like.

I helped at a primary school where they spent a whole day learning how to post a bloody letter and having a school trip to a post office! My children do that all the time!

My friend had a letter home asking for permission to take her child to a garden centre to learn about buying and growing plants!

Madness! HEd children do all this stuff in the normal course of their lives, and have the chance to talk and talk and talk about it with trusted adults. How would teachers be able to offer that amount of time to children just to talk about what they want ot know about?

julienoshoes · 02/08/2009 13:38

I think that external inspections would shed light on delayed skills development and help HE parents understand where their children were behind. It matters when children don't learn to read. Reading is the basic skill that gives access to learning.

And children need to learn to prove what they know to strangers - that is also a very basic life skill.

Indeed juuule is correct about my daughter.

She left schoo, aged nearly nine completely unable to read or spell even her own name.
She had very severe dyslexia and the school and the LA were unable/unwilling to address it.

She had no word attack skills at all, none.
She couldn't recognise word shapes or the phonetics at all.
She was also dyspraxic/dysgraphic and had ADHD

She would run screaming hysterically at any attempt to teach/encourage literacy.

Fortunately for us othermore experienced home educators were on hand to show us that their is a different way, which is remarkably efficient-it's called autonomous home education in the UK.

We were able to use so many other ways of educating our child, facilitating and following her interests. Her education ran ahead, she regained a love of learning and life itself. Reading and spelling were allowed to catch up in their own good time.

She finally began to read aged 13. She reads for pleasure now, you hardly see her without her head in a book.
She spells well too.
She started her first OU starter course aged 15 and 'achieved all of the outcomes', which puts her at degree entry level apparently.

MY daughter would never have been able to show any strangers what she knew for most of the way through her education, not when she was in school or outside of it-UNTIL SHE WAS READY TO.

She is incredibly independant now, she travels all over the country, by herself, as she has been playing live gigs with a band (who all live about 90 miles away)since she was 14. She'll happily perform on stages the size of Glastonburys main stage and in front of humongous crowds.

She will start college in Septemeber doing a National BTEC in Music, equivelant to three A levels apparently.

Right now she is taking part in a National Musical Youth Theatre summer production, which means being away from home with a bunch of complete strangers, working with leading directors and choreographers, for a fortnight in Belfast. That of course entailed auditions to win a place and then a role.

She has been accepted to be part of the Children and Youth Board,
'The two year Board will take on the role of advising Ministers and policy officials on the development of policy and practice that affects children and young people in England'
She was interviewed for this by professionals she had never seen before-and will obviously be working with all sorts of people she has never met before.

She was insistant on meeting Graham Badman (the author of the review response) face to face twice and carried on talking to him in the company of another autonomously home ed teen all the way back to his train, after he had come out to meet with our HE group.

She has met Lord Lucas, and officials in the DCSF, when we met there to talk about the review on home education.

But all of this is in her own good time.

Further I'd say i don't consider my daughter to be unusual amongst autonomously home educated young people. We know hunderds of such teenagers and young people-everyone of whom is doing well in employement, college or education.

The same cannot be said of the young people with SEN that my daughter left behind in the remedial classes in school!

If you are interested in knowing more about how efficient autonomous home education can be, there is an article about it by Alan Thomas Dr Thomas is not a home educator but has become facinated by what an efficient method autonomus HE is and has continued to do further research in this area

Forgive any spelling mistakes, spell checker is not working and I am having problems with my pc.

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:39

Riven - if the people I met in RL who had been HEd were leading happy, fulfilled, successful lives I wouldn't be so worried. But that is not my experience.

As I say, all parents have plenty of opportunity to "HE" their children as they see fit and to offer their children opportunities that school doesn't. School serves a different purpose to parenting, and different skills are acquired and emphasised.

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:41

"I helped at a primary school where they spent a whole day learning how to post a bloody letter and having a school trip to a post office! My children do that all the time!"

That is not an argument in favour of HE, though. It is an argument against bad schools, not schooling in principle.

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 13:41

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BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:42

julienoshoes - sure, I understand, your child had SEN and they weren't being adequately addressed by school. That is sad, but it is not what the articles on this thread are about.

ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 13:46

thought the articles were about autonomous education generally and how some people think it must be challenged or at the least, closely supervised. She is saying how autonomous education was successful with her dd although regular monitoring as people are advocating now would not have necessarily revealed this success in earlier years so I think it is quite a helpful post.

ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 13:50

ah well, I suppose it's a case of if something works very well for you and your dc, it is hard to appreciate that something entirely different works too, whether you're an autonomous educator looking at formal schooling or v.v.

I am very results-fixed myself so I initially thought autonomous education was a bit whacky I suppose. I am more open to it these days but as I said, probably couldn't relax enough to do it with my own dc.

julienoshoes · 02/08/2009 14:07

No Anna, my point got lost because I was having PC problems.

I meant to demonstarte the suitability of autonomous HE in delivering an excellent education and preparing any child for life-because they are out there living life and not stuck in school.

My daughter is very able to demostrate to strangers what she knows-NOW that she is ready to do so.
All the way along though this has been entirely her choice when and where to mix with others.

She didn't want to demostarte any such thing to the LA or anyone else until she was ready-the thought of doing so, as she explained to Graham Badman, would literally have terrified her, both because of her dyslexia and because she had had such bad experiences in school.

You said
'if the people I met in RL who had been HEd were leading happy, fulfilled, successful lives I wouldn't be so worried. But that is not my experience.'

I too could generalise and tell you about the very large number of people I hear from that are so unhappy, unfulfilled and unsuccesful in school-and I could say that school therefore obviously does not work.
But that wouldn't be true of course.
It works for some people

Parents are still the best people to judge what is right for their families.

julienoshoes · 02/08/2009 15:29

And Anna you also said

"It matters when children don't learn to read. Reading is the basic skill that gives access to learning."

Autonomous HE children do learn to read-when the time is right for them.
In my daughters case it was 13.
I don't personally know of anyone in RL who learned later than that, but I know of a couple of HE youngsters who learned at a similar age and a great many who learned later than the school based reading age target.

They are all well read confident, articulate well educated people.

Reading is the basic skill that gives access to learninga-when you are a child in school, as my daughter sadly demonstrated as she was totally lost in the class room falling further and further behind.

Teachers need children to read and write, to access learning and so that they can have feed back on whether each of the 35 or so children in their class have understood the lessaon and made progress.

However when you are autonomously home educating on a one to one basis (or in our case a one to three basis) then education is much more personalised and you don't have to be able to read at 5/6/7/8 to access an education-as my previous post was meant to demonstrate.

We were out and about at museums, workshops, theatres, art galleries etc.
We watched videos/DVDs TV a lot.
Our daughter had us to read to her when ever she wanted, she listened to audio books frequently too. Instead of forcing her to try and read, (which the schools were trying to do) we allowed her to develop a love of books and stories.
Other people were there to read for her, if we were not, if she needed them to-with no one in the home ed community saying 'you must be stupid if you can't read' as they did in school.

And over and above all of this we used 'purposeful conversation', we talked about everything and anything, for just as long as she wanted us to.

The OU tutor said she would never have known that H couldn't read until she was 13.
Mr Badman seemed suprised too.

julienoshoes · 02/08/2009 15:36

ZZZenAgain said
"it is hard to appreciate that something entirely different works too, whether you're an autonomous educator looking at formal schooling or v.v."

I do appreciate how schooling didn't work for my children-we have done both remember.
Our children were 13, 11 and 8 when we deregistered them.
My stepson went all the way through school when he lived with us, as sadly I didn't know about HE then.
He, like his younger three siblings, will definately be autonomously home educating his children, having witnessed both methods.
DH and I both went to school as well, so of course we have that experience too.

You also said
"ah well, I suppose it's a case of if something works very well for you and your dc,"

Now that IMO is the biggest truth of all.
The vast majority want what is best for their children-and know what is best for their children.

All parents should have accurate information about all educational choices, so they can make an informed decision about what is best for their family at that time.

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 15:59

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ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 17:24

ok point taken then I change that to "works for SOMEONE ELSE's dc at their particular scdhool etc".

thedolly · 02/08/2009 17:45

So how do HEors make sure that their DC participate in sports, music and drama? Tennis lessons and dance lessons only go so far. What about a team sport like hockey? And music and drama performances?

juuule · 02/08/2009 17:54

If the children want to do it then I'd find out where they could do it.

I do suggest things that I think they might like and encourage them to try things.

But if they don't want to do it then that's their call.

Generally, they do tend to want to try things, though.

My dds have recently taken part in stage performances (acting, singing and dancing) from our local theatre workshops.
One dd has guitar lessons.
They've attended weekly gymnastic sessions, trampolining weeks, weekly swimming.

They have the option to play netball but didn't want to join.

They play team sports with Brownies.

Why would you think this a problem?

thedolly · 02/08/2009 17:58

Also
how and when do you integrate DCs back into mainstream ed? Age 15?

ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 17:59

are you thinking it would all add up to be too expensive if you had to pay for all those things privately dolly that are otherwise offered at school?

This family I know who HE (4 girls) have them doing A LOT of sport, they are all in a competitive swimming team with away games etc and practice twice a week, they play football, basketball (2 of them), 1 dances and the other plays baseball. Seems to be all cheap, some of it is free. THey do brownies/guides and all that goes with that and they do church-based youth activities. They are also in a choir.

They are out with something every afternoon as far as I know

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