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'Home Schoolers should be treated robustly'

232 replies

maverick · 20/07/2009 15:39

If you scroll down to igb's posting on this thread/page you'll see he has strong views on home education. He believes that 'the purpose of education is to protect children from their parents' prejudices', and therefore, 'Home Schoolers should be treated robustly'

Any thoughts?

www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10249&start=75

OP posts:
FlamongoBongo · 02/08/2009 11:12

Autonomous education is not the easy option! It's bloody hard work, and immensely good fun. Exhilarating and inspiring

But then I've had six years of researching HE, and meeting regularly with other HEors with older children who've been autonomously educated for years and years and who are extremely articulate, intelligent, sensible people.

When I first learnt about HE, I thought it would be all blackboards and workbooks and thought it sounded great - then I learnt that actually that's not the most efficient way to learn and I had to slowly readjust my understanding of how children learn.

Now I have a DD (6) who can read fluently and has done for a while. Although she's done it very young for a natural learner, the point is, she did it. But I didn't do nothing. I read to her, and found books for her, and told her what words say, and found websites for her to play on, and tv. programmes for her to watch, and took her to reading activities etc.

My children know absolutely loads about science, how the world works, history, geography - all more than they are meant to know according to the NC. They've learnt about Victorians from watching Victorian Farm with us, then playing The Railway Children over and over again, and attending a session at our local museum that I organised with other HEors where they dressed up as Victorians.

They know about dinosaurs from an interest sparked by a book, and carried through by buying Walking With Dinosaurs dvd with birthday money, getting more books, arranging to drive to London to visit the Natural History Museum.

They know about different countries from plotting where their cousin has visited on his round-the-world trip, and looking at where their Uncle used to live with my SIL in Russia, and where Paddington Bear came from.

They know about the different states of water from playing with the snow, and bringing in snowballs to melt under the tap in the sink, and from watching ice melt in their drinks, and from watching the steam coming off a pan of boiling water.

DD1 wanted to learn French, so I take her to a french club that runs weekly local to us, and we listen to french cds in the car.

With all these things, I didn't do nothing - I talked, answered questions, found explanations and games to play online to help further their understanding.

NOw I sound smug, but what I'm tryign to say is that autonomous learning does work. It's very efficient, and ours is not the only family to have discovered how wonderful it is. There is even research that shows how efficient it can be.

And when children get to an age where they need more than just conversation with parents and other adults, then they usually are sensible enough to find a course they can go on to learn about the subject in more depth - OU accepts young HE'd students, and there are local courses they can do - or find a paid or voluntary job they can do to learn a skill in an apprenticeship way.

juuule · 02/08/2009 11:18

Bonsoiranna - how do you think that inspections and meeting external expectations would work with someone like Julienoshoes dd who couldn't read until she was 13?

FlamongoBongo · 02/08/2009 11:28

And what about the children who don't want to prove their learning to a random stranger?

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 11:44

I think that external inspections would shed light on delayed skills development and help HE parents understand where their children were behind. It matters when children don't learn to read. Reading is the basic skill that gives access to learning.

And children need to learn to prove what they know to strangers - that is also a very basic life skill.

ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 12:03

hmm see both sides really. Dp like that author below who is HE in a more perhaps traditional manner would be able to show evidence of academic attainment, workbooks, material covered, a curriculum followed etc without much trouble.

If the role of external inspectors was clearly defined as being supportive and non-threatening, yes, I would find the idea ok. I'm not sure what autonomous educators could live with though. Personally I would find it acceptable for a reviewer to say "I would like to see you address x and spend time on y in the next 12 months, I see a deficit here" but I suppose they would dislike that too since it doesn't fit well in their approach.

I am however intensely uncomfortable with a kind of invasive and suspicious approach which smacks to me almost of the attempt to criminalise the dp. I don't find it acceptable that dc be "taken out for questioning". I realise what issues are really being addressed with all this (child abuse, child labour etc) but the govt is unnecessarily alienating parents who do take responsibility for their dc's wellbeing and education albeit not in a formal learning manner with this approach. I hope they don't implement it.

ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 12:05

what do they do in France Anna? I know HE is permitted but I think the dc have to sit exams at the end of every school year. Is that right, do you know?

So autonomous educators in France must have a problem then

juuule · 02/08/2009 12:12

Why do children need to be learn to prove hat they know to strangers?

From reading Julienoshoes posts, julienoshoes dd did learn to read. In her own time and when she was ready. Not to someone else's timescale. JNS was more aware of her dd's needs than the school system she took her dd out of. How could external inspections have helped considering they only knew the school model that hadn't helped JNS dd?

juuule · 02/08/2009 12:13

what

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 12:49

In France, you can HE if you want but your children must follow the French NC. There is an organisation dedicated to HE and to parents who are overseas and need to keep their children up to date with the French NC - it is called CNED. I'm not sure how it works in detail.

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 12:51

"Why do children need to be learn to prove hat they know to strangers?"

I can hardly believe anyone needs to ask this question!

Everyone needs to be able to demonstrate what they know to others (both known and unknown to them) in the course of the living and working day. It is a very basic skill of human interaction. If you are not prepared to do this, then you are cut off from human society and cannot interact within it.

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 12:57

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BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:02

That's great, Riven, and, by the sounds of it, your children didn't have any difficulty demonstrating what they had learnt to strangers!

juuule · 02/08/2009 13:02

There is a difference between children showing what they know to known others (parents, friends, relatives) and performing for strangers.

As children mature I would think that they would realise where it was in their interests to demonstrate what they know. e.g. for exams if they need qualifications or if they need to demonstrate skills for something they want.

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:06

I don't believe that children should be kept in a bubble of parents, family and friends and not be expected to interact with strangers. In fact, I think it is a great disservice to do this to one's children. Learning to interact with strangers is a vital life skill and being able to do so improves life chances, right from the outset.

juuule · 02/08/2009 13:08

The children are not living in a bubble. They interact with strangers every time they meet someone new or join a new group. These strangers don't inspect them or their academic abilities, though.

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:10

But it is good for children to strike up interesting conversations with strangers and to use their knowledge to engage with people who they do not know! And children usually enjoy doing so! The ones who don't are the ones whose skills are undeveloped.

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 13:12

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juuule · 02/08/2009 13:12

There is a difference between someone coming to inspect your learning and striking up a casual interesting conversation.

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:13

But in RL we don't all get to choose who we interact with all the time - we have to learn to interact to our own advantage (ie negotiate) with all sorts. What on earth is the point of waiting?

juuule · 02/08/2009 13:13

As usual Riven puts it better than I do.

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 13:18

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BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:20

I do get you Riven, and since I have rather a sad example of HE and catastrophic social skills and integration in my own family (children all went to Oxbridge and gots Firsts, PhDs etc) it is something I feel quite strongly about!

sarah293 · 02/08/2009 13:28

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ZZZenAgain · 02/08/2009 13:28

I don't think many schools are places that encourage good social skills tbh. When I think back to my own secondary school days, there was quite a bit of deliberate and prolonged nastiness rife. It was not directed at me at the time so I did not personally suffer from it and I suppose I thought that was the way it had to be.

The HErs I do know (and I don't know many) cite the social environment as the main reason for not sending their dc to school. This more than the academic side seems the predominant worry.

BonsoirAnna · 02/08/2009 13:30

Not me, in my family (cousins - two families, no less). The children were all perfectly academic but found it immensely difficult to get on in RL and, with hindsight, it is very easy to see why. Two of the five children concerned are all right now, but took a very long time to get sorted as adults; three are social and interpersonal catastrophes: one is a hermit, the other one a religious nut and the third escapes into literature. All live in total chaos. So hardly successful.

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