why aren't more people open-minded about HE?

[BeNimble]

why can't they be?

I agree with Pisces and Seeker that the home-education community can be quite secretive and defensive - but LA inspectors often don't understand autonomous education or are biased against home-ed, and it can be difficult to deal with that attitude. It also gets quite boring to be asked the same questions constantly, usually "what about socialisation?", "isn't it illegal?" etc etc.

I was home-educated myself, as were my five brothers and sisters. My parents never really did any formal "educating", they just answered our questions and helped us with whatever we were interested in. I've got 3 A-Levels, done through a correspondence course completely off my own back, and am a qualified nursery nurse and now work as a trained professional actor.

My sister is at university, and my brother has qualified as a sound engineer and was the youngest person to get an HND, in Electrical Engineering. He has never done a formal exam (GCSE/ALevel etc) in his life. My younger siblings are all at the stage of either taking exams or thinking about it in the future. Parents aren't necessarily qualified in every subject, but they don't have to be - correspondence courses are freely available, and exams aren't necessary for getting into university and college or getting a job.

We've all been academically successful, have tons of friends outside the family, and have taken part in activities such as young archaeologists/bowling/chess/drama/dance. Socialisation has never been a problem.

Having said all of this, I do accept that there are some families where home education doesn't work too well. I don't personally know of any, but I'm sure they exist. There are weird, secretive, bad home-educators, just as there are weird, secretive and bad school-attending families. There are children who leave schools after years of "education", illiterate and completely cheesed off with learning and life in general.

Home-education is no better or worse than any other educational choice. It has huge benefits for some children and drawbacks for others, just as school does. For me and my family it was a huge success, and I am so glad that I never had to go to school.

I would call that an excellent post TeenyTinyToria-it is quite inspiring-if all HEers wrote similar, well balanced posts I would be completely open minded! I agree that it must get boring to be asked the same questions over and over again but if they were answered in a friendly manner people would eventually stop asking them-they would know the answers!
Your post was like a breath of fresh air! It was obviously a positive experience for your family.

"But parents, whatever we think, should be free to raise their kids as they see fit"

REALLY? With no checks and balances at all?

Thanks Pisces

I see most posts from HEers as grey, they are so defensive and you are not allowed to question and they will never admit that not everyone can do it successfully, some are totally inadequate (some parents of school children are totally inadequate). The attitude is that anyone can do it, even if they work and palm them off with a childminder, it is better than school.
Someone earlier on the thread wondered if in the future anyone could sue the LEA because they hadn't had an education and the LEA hadn't saved them. I don't think the LEA would be liable as things stand, but as the law says that a child must receive an education I think that there should be a safety net, a child who hasn't had a reasonable education has no redress.

In contrast I saw your post as bright yellow
TeenyTinyToria, you painted a wonderful picture of it as its best, the way I would like it to be if I did it.

"There are weird, secretive, bad home-educators, just as there are weird, secretive and bad school-attending families"

It was fair and balanced, both types of education get the full range.

"Home-education is no better or worse than any other educational choice. It has huge benefits for some children and drawbacks for others"

The best sentence of all was the one above. The thing that gets me down more than anything else is the assumption that school is a damaging experience for every child, and those of who send them are following the herd, rather than making an informed choice for our own child.

I think that HE should be an equally valid educational choice. HEers should be positive and friendly about what they do and stop knocking other choices. When I choose a school I expect the school to be positive, friendly and open about what they do, I would be completely put off if they started slagging off the alternatives!

If I was asked the same questions over and over again I think that I would print out a little humorous, friendly card to hand out saying:
yes it is legal with quote from education act
yes it is sociable they go to ......
any other FAQ
ending with -for more information go to www....

I haven't been attacking HE,I have been telling OP why I think that people are not open minded about HE. TeenyTinyToria would most definitely open my mind!

Just for interest can anyone think of any other law where there are no checks that it is being upheld?

The law says that the child has to receive an education, this doesn't have to be provided by a school but if the parents choose not to send them they have to provide the education. If parents HE they have stepped into a different role, no one should be checking on their parenting (it was completely wrong to have the comments someone had earlier about their taste in ornaments!)However they should be checking that the DC is receiving an education.
Kitchens that care for the public have to meet hygiene regulations. My SIL has started baking to sell. Her kitchen was her own affair for the family-she could be as messy as she liked and the cat could go anywhere, now that she has extended her role an inspector had to come in, she can't be as messy as she likes and the cat is banished.
They are not checking on anything else purely that her kitchen meets the law. In HE inspectors are not checking your parenting skills but they should be able to check that the education is being provided.

Sorry cater for the public not care for the public.

I would agree that a written report should suffice unless their are real causes for concern.

sorry there not their-I am having a bad morning-will give up and have a coffee!

I didn't mention the NC-I have already said that that I would love to get away from it. Education takes many forms, no one would expect there to be 'a way' to HE. I bet that TeenyTinyToria's parents had no trouble with officialdom at all-it is obvious from a short post that they were providing a good education. I would also bet that they were very confident about it and friendly. A little friendliness gets you a long way!

We had our first visit when I was 4 or 5, and as far as I remember, the inspector sat and talked to my parents for half an hour, wouldn't look at any of the stories I'd written which I wanted to show her, and the whole thing was a bit of a waste of time.

She returned after a year or so, when my younger sister said "Gosh, you're very fat!" and then didn't bother coming back at all.

My parents were never overly secretive about it, but didn't choose to draw the local authority's attention or request visits either. We had contact with quite a lot of other families who had terrible problems with inspectors. Many found it difficult to accept that autonomous education might not result in "work" that they could inspect, and that the quality of education could be judged in other ways than through written stuff. I think that's why some parents get so defensive, and the way some local authorities behave can be truly appalling, with regard to obstructing withdrawal from school especially, even where children are suicidal because of bullying.

My parents never really had any hassle from the authorities, and I wasn't withdrawn from school with difficulty, which (I think) helped to give them a positive attitude. They decided to home-educate me originally because they were told by the health visitor at my preschool check that I would fit into a P3 class at school. They enrolled me at school, but after a comment from my class teacher-to-be about how "all the kids would be the same by Christmas", they weren't confident that I wouldn't have to go through the whole P1 curriculum bored stiff, so deregistered me. I remember being very disappointed for all of two weeks because I didn't get to use my new lunchbox .

After that, it just seemed natural not to send any of us to school.

Piscesmoon - "even if they work and palm them off with a childminder, it is better than school.

I think, for some children this is probably true. And out of interest do your really believe that people who leave their children with childminders 'palm them off'?

"If parents HE they have stepped into a different role, "

Have they? How?

You say that your sister baking for her own family was her own affair until she began baking for the public. Why do you think that education shouldn't be the parent's own affair?

Unless your sister's children appeared malnourished then they would be left alone and it would be assumed that they were being fed correctly. They wouldn't be given regular visits or your sister expected to submit meal plans and reports to ensure they were receiving correct nutrition.

In a similar way, the law says that the LA should leave families who are home-educating alone and assume that an education is taking place unless it was brought to their attention that this might not be so.

I think that you are misunderstanding my post juuule-the kitchen inspection had nothing to do with her children. I am just making the point that she was taking on a different role and in that role she had to be inspected. I don't think that education should be entirely the parent's affair because quite frankly some parents are toxic (you only have to read some threads on mumsnet to discover how many people have trouble with their parents and how many had very poor childhoods). I think that DCs who already have the disadvantage of parents with poor parenting skills need someone on their side. Of course most parents who decide to HE are lovely parents and are doing a great job, educating their DCs in the way they see fit. I don't think that they need to have visits, a written report of what they do do would be fine.
I accept that a lot of LEAs seem to be trying to force HEers into a very narrow view of education-I don't know why they don't have more vision. If you want to change their view I think openness and friendliness would eventually change minds.
I think a CM is someone you leave your DC with while you work-and while I accept that you can work and HE, with fathers and grandparents etc taking a role (possibly with a small amount with a CM)I think that the education of the DC is of prime importance and you work around that, the needs of the adult come second. Sending a DC to a CM because that childminder is going to be a fantastic inspiration for their education is very different from sending the DC to a childminder because you are too busy.

Piscesmoon I don't think that I misunderstood your kitchen analogy. As you say the kitchen inspection had nothing to do with your sister's children, it was to do with her new role of supplying food to the public. Parents are not taking on a new role when they HE they are just not delegating their child's education to a school. They are not providing a service to the public.

I feel that your last post shows some lack of understanding of the many ways of HEing. If you look in this section at recommended books for HE you might understand better how it works. Home-education doesn't have to keep school hours so it is quite possible for a child to be at a childminders during some hours of the day and still be educated around those hours.

"I think a CM is someone you leave your DC with while you work"
Some parents leave their children with cm while they have a few hours break. Some take a day off work and still take their child to cm. There are a variety of situations that parents would leave their child with a childminder. It is a way of having their child cared for while they do something else.

"I accept that a lot of LEAs seem to be trying to force HEers into a very narrow view of education-I don't know why they don't have more vision. If you want to change their view I think openness and friendliness would eventually change minds."

If only it was that simple there wouldn't be a problem, would there.

I am not saying any more.
I have said in reply to OP that people would be more open minded if you were not so defensive! Openness and friendliness would work wonders.
TeenyTinyToria's post made me think 'Wow-that sounds great!'. She gave a balanced view, was happy to admit there were negatives, said that it wasn't suited to all DCs and showed me some of the problems with LEAs (my SIL must be very lucky).
She could do a great PR job for all HEers! As I said her post was like a ray of sunshine and could inspire anyone to give it a go-mainly because she was enthusiastic and positive.