why aren't more people open-minded about HE?

[BeNimble]

why can't they be?

Piscesmoon not Picesmoon, sorry.

'Friendly communication gets you much further than defensive 'shutters down'"

Not always, paticularly if the other person doesn't share your point of view.'

This seems a catch22 situation-they are never ever going to share your point of view if you won't communicate.
People are not suddenly going to be converted, it will take a long time and will only happen if HEers stop the secrecy. If people see that the HE community is friendly, welcoming and seen to be a very viable alternative they will become open minded.
If you want absolute privacy, mistake interest for condemnation and not interested in debate then people will tend to have very negative views.
I have seen the very positive side of HE, I would say that my SIL does it well. I am by no means anti, I am sure that some children blossom in the way that they wouldn't in school. One size doesn't fit all-even within the same family.However I have to say that all the good work is overshadowed by the unfriendliness,defensiveness, fear of authority and secrecy of some.

I think I had better bow out of the conversation because I only have one point-do it well, be confident, be proud, ask the LEA in to see what you are doing and be able to defend your methods (in a friendly way), answer people's questions, be a visable part of the community so that people know that it is within the law and the OP wouldn't need to even raise the question!

Piscesmoon,

You do not seem to be listening to the replies here?

People are not being secretive on this forum.... Real HE-ors are telling you how it IS in the real world for them.
You seem to think allowing LA bods (who know nothing about how children learn, other than in a school setting) into our homes to question our children is the answer to everything. Unfortunately, that is, nor would it be the case for lots of families.

Also, and I'm sure you already know this as its been said over and over again....
If a family refused to supply any info at all to the LA regarding their education provision, there are ALREADY systems in place allowing the LA to investigate further and serve an SAO if necessary!
Unfortunately LA's dont know how to use the powers they already have effectively. It is The LA's who need educating!

You say we are defensive, and maybe we are, but with good reason. Please, listen to what people are telling you. These are real people and real children. Dont brush their comments under the carpet because they don't fit with your rosy picture of a nice LA Bod interviewing the perfect HE child over a nice cup of tea!

I say WE are well informed, and WE are the one's HE-ing. We have made it ous business to find out the way our children learn best.
We know the Law, and how LA's operate and we know(IN lAW) our children have a right to a private life.
See, now I am getting defensive!lol

I really dont know why you insist with this? Are you really saying the LA should have legal access to our homes and our children?
(Is this the same LA that spectacularly fails thousands of children in school every year? )
And can you imagine the costs involved investigating thousands of innocent and loving families? That money would be better spent educating LA bods (and some teachers) about HE, the LAW and the way children LEARN.
Or even better, spend the money on making school better and safer places for children to be.

As an after-thought... To the guys who have posted their opinions here(including the teachers it would seem) who clearly have very little understanding of HE, please do a little research. (The books mentioned earlier are great). HE for us, and I believe many families, is not just about our DD's education, it is a lifestyle choice. I really dont see why I should have to be open and public about our lives, except of-course to our friends and family.
After putting our 3 older children through school it is me who has found it hard to trust in HE and not do the "school at home" thing with DD. But I have learned loads about HE and the many difernt forms it can take. For us there is no boudary between learning and living. The two are one. We do not "teach" DD. She learns from life. She is learning how to find things for herself. She doesn't need a "teacher". It's amazing to see but that's the thing, unless you see it, its hard to undestand it, and HE-ors can try and explain it til we are blue in the face..but some folk just cant see it and others just refuse to see it!
Some-one once said on here, that when she finally "got" HE it was like "Alice Through The Lookin Glass". I didnt understand that comment until recently.

We dont have work-books, follow the NC we dont measure attainment. We dont test. We dont do any of the things the (dis-honest LA's demand. Do you really think allowing them to question our DD is going to tick all their little boxes?
Already, at 5 yrs old she is far ahead of her schooled peers. academically, socially, and more importantly, she is happier!
There Piscesmoon, I have sung it from the roof-tops like you said I should!

Piscesmoon
Seriously where are HE-ers you describe here
"
the unfriendliness,defensiveness, fear of authority and secrecy of some."

You must know a lot of HE families to come accross so many un-friendly ones?
I really am surprised at that because I know lots of He families and have NEVER come accross any.
We are all a really friendly bunch

You sound, dare I say it a little left out?

And, you say you are not anti-HE? [hmmm]

As for your last post....Seriously, you are an LA bod aren't you?

'I really dont know why you insist with this? Are you really saying the LA should have legal access to our homes and our children?'

Absolutely.

Well done inhindsight-keep singing it from the roof tops and people will change their views. Iam utterly amazed that any HEers should follow deadly workbooks-I would have thought it was one of the things you would want to get away from. I wouldn't expect you to follow the NC-I wouldn't if I didn't have to!
However if you don't tell people -they don't know these things. Keep telling the LEA long enough and hard enough and they may change their views.

so piscesmoon - you'd be happy to have the LA come ot visit you at weekends and during school holidays to make sure everything was OK hen?

OP wouldn't have started the thread if there wasn't a problem!

I'm secretive/private in my dealings with some people, and not with others, just like absolutely everyone else.

Let's do the natural term breastfeeding analogy. Perfectly justifiable to breastfeed beyond 6 months or a year, if a tad counter cultural.

Most natural term breastfeeders would be completely open about the practice, the motivations, the ups and downs with their family and friends.

But if, for some reason, a social worker popped round, they might find they didn't want to be quite so open about the bfing (red flag!) or the delayed vaxxing (red flag!) or the fact that they co-sleep (red flag!). These are indeed all completely innocent parenting decisions but get yourself a slightly twisted social worker (are you going to guarantee that social workers are always open minded in such matters?) and you are in heap plenty big shit.

Indeed, the natural term breastfeeders might find it increasingly necessary to be discreet about their continuing nursing relationship when out and about - not something they'll be shouting about to the neighbours, and if the neighbours ask them (it's hard to imagine, but they might, if they've seen a 2 year old nursing, ask the mother about it) the mother might well dissemble, not because it's a secret, and not because she's unconfident, but because a neighbour who does not know you well and shares your postcode but probably not your values, is only a phone call away from SS. And when you think "that's ridiculous, who would ever call SS because a neighbour was still breastfeeding?" click back away from the bfing analogy to HE, because HE families quite frequently find themselves the victims of SS referrals.

And yes, maybe HEers are a touch paranoid about the State, but then, the stakes are so high that perhaps we can't afford not to be very cautious. As in, children removed from the family and put into "care" high stakes.

No-I am not educating my DCs!!
The law says that children have to receive an education-someone needs to know that the DCs are getting one. Any law needs to be upheld.

OP asked 'why are people not more open minded about HE'-it is quite simple IMO-they don't know much about it and if they ask people get huffy! The last part of inhindsights post was very interesting-when she got away from being defensive and opened up about what she actually does. If people said what they did rather than what they are not going to do we would all have more knowledge to 'open our minds'.

But there have been loads of other threads in which people have asked how other HE parents teach certain subjects and things, autonomously educate, provide socialisation opportunities, etc! They are there for people to see. There are loads, LOADS of blogs and websites on the internet now, in which peole have detailed things they do, subjects they cover, what autonomous education is, where they go, how they structure their days and on and on. People have been very open with their responses, and described what they do. So how are they being "secretive?" How? When people ask me questions because of genuine curiosity I happily answer them. I was speaking on the phone just recently to a mother who asked me what we do, why I withdrew ds etc. But I don't like an interrogationary approach, which I've had, and can't see why I should passively accept such.

So what are the negatives of HE then? I am more than prepared to tell you the negative side of school education - are any of the home edders prepared to do the same?

There are negatives of course. It's all a question of balance isn't it? I mean, one weighs up the cons against the pros and makes a decision that's right for one's own family.

One thing is, of course, that if for a HEing family the negatives of HEing the family, or one child within the family, are outweighing the positives, then society is all geared up to welcome them back into school. So I don't think many of us would get to a stage where our children were seriously depressed or self-harming or threatening suicide or weeping every morning as they got out of bed because of being HEed because if they were weighed down by negatives to that extent, we wouldn't still be Heing them. But the converse is the case for a lot of families who come to HE after having had a horrific schooling experience - their children were ground down by the negatives (to them) of their schooling and so once the family escaped that situation, they are probably pretty ready to talk about that terrible time and the way they escaped it.

Are you saying there are inherent negatives about home education which we should all be acknowledging, and that there are inherent negatives about schools, and that everyone should acknowledge all those negatives before making the right decision for and with their own families? I don't know if I can play that game. I'm more of a glass half full girl, myself

By Riven on Sat 28-Feb-09 13:00:13
how comes where 50% of children do not get 5 A-C grades at GCSE aren't investigated by the SS then? Someone needs to check why those kids aren't getting an education.

I VOTE for Riven!!!

Riven do you want to come to mine when the L.A next visit??? .

"
Are you saying there are inherent negatives about home education which we should all be acknowledging, and that there are inherent negatives about schools, and that everyone should acknowledge all those negatives before making the right decision for and with their own families? I don't know if I can play that game. I'm more of a glass half full girl, myself "

Yes, i think I am. I'm a glass half full sort of person too - but I also think you need to look at all sides of a situation before you make an important decision like this.

I've jsut thought of another question. There are a lot of people in the home ed community who believe very strongly that the way they educate their children is between them and their children and no one has any right to intervene. Some of those people are posting on here. So, here's my question. Do you think that people should be allowed to teach their children that the world began 6000 years ago, that cavemen and dinosaurs co-existed, that the world was created in 6 days and that God created fossils to test human faith?

Really, Riven? Do you really think it doesn't matter what children learn? It's OK for them to be told things as fact that fly in the face of science?

I've not read through the whole thread, so apologies if someone has already made this point - but not all people who home ed do so by choice.

I have 2 children who are thriving in school, who I wouldn't dream of home edding, as I PERSONALLY think school is the best place for them.

My eldest however has special needs (ASD) and has been completely failed by the school system. My choice for him is a behaviour difficulies school (which he does not have), a learning difficulties school (he's exceptionally bright), a residential school (no way!), or home ed!!

There are many people who are chosing to home ed and are doing a fantastic job by their children, and are very happy with their choice - and that is great. There are also plenty of other people doing it because they feel its their only option.