why aren't more people open-minded about HE?

[BeNimble]

why can't they be?

Because we've been there, done that!

You've been there done that with your children at that school. My children, different school, different experience.

dizietsma!

"they know school was horrible for them and is still horrible for kids"

Now that's an assumption!

What I say is .... hy can't people be more openminded about any education choice - not just HE

"Another reason I think people are defensive when told about HE is that in their heart of hearts, they know school was horrible for them and is still horrible for kids, but it'd be too much of an upheaval in their lives to stop sending the kids to the state provided free babysitter."

That is SUCH an offensive thing to say! Please take it back, then we can have a debate.

100years but while you might have a degree and be able to home educate your child, it is not a prerequisit. Even someone who has had no education can home educate, and the problem is, there is no regulation, so if it goes wrong, no-one will know until it is too late.

Of the two people I know who were home educated, one is the most socially inept person I have ever met in my life, and the other says that home education ruined her life and the most important thing for her children is that they be educated in school.

While I am sure that there are people who are completely capable of home educating their children, I am also positive that not all home education is a good thing, and that there's no-one to pick up the pieces, or even notice if the child is not receiving an adequate education.

Imo HE should be regulated in the same way as schools. Ofsted should be involved and there should be steps to ensure that a child being home-educated is in fact being educated. In a country where we are still battling with literacy standards, there is too much potential for children to fall through the net.

If you home educate you should be made to prove that your child is being educated.

HE is too closed and secretive IMO and resembles more of a cult than normality.

I find it strange that people who don't want to HE feel qualified to tell others who do He what is all about. It's like me trying to tell someone who works as a doctor what their profession is all about on the basis of exposure to a couple of people who've done it or "things I've heard." Sure, I've seen plenty of programs on T.V, read things. But would that qualifiy me to go around making erroneous, blanket statements about what being a doctor entails? I don't think so. I certainly wouldn't go on a forum for those in the medical profession and attempt to tell them what it's all about, unless I'd had some personal experience or exposure of working in that field.

It's the same with HE. I can completely understand why some would be skeptical about the idea of "unqualified" people taking on the task of educating their own children. But if your objective is to truly understand, as opposed, to just throwing darts, then as an open minded person, you would attempt to undertake some research of your own that might include talking to a wide swathe of HEing parents and children, not just those whose experiences fit in with your own prejudices. Statistical info is also easily available.

A HE parent should not be derogatory comments about others who love their children but choose to send them to school. But equally, how do those of you who are admitedly ignorant about the whys and wherfores of homeschooling, feel obliged to derogate what you have little experience of?
Words such as "sinister," "unqualified" and "weird" are thrown, and you wonder why we're a defensive and close ranked lot?

I never use derogatory words about HE - and I have a lot of experience of it in many different ways. But because I choose to send my children to school, I have already on this thread been classified as someone who knows that school is horrible and my children are miserable, but can't be arsed to find an alternative to the"state funded baby sitter" I don't think anyone has said anything like as harsh about HE!

I have to say I agree with seeker and, like her, I have made no derogatory comments about HE. Indeed I had no idea some people considered it cult-like.

Being a teacher, I do object to the comment about the state provided free babysitter. I will bear that in mind for Monday.

2kidzandi, I still am unclear as to how HE parents are qualified to provide an education to the level a secondary school can. I trained for several years to get to the level necessary to teach one area of the curriculum. I am at a loss if covering a maths class doing trigonometry and can only advise them where to find the answer I cannot give them, which is no substitution for being able to work through it with them.

Like most people, and indeed, most teachers, I would agree that your most fundamental eduaction for life begins in the home. Home educated children may well benefit in many ways from it, but there would need to be some pretty compelling evidence for me to believe that these children have the same expertise available to them as they would were they at school.

Seeker it is your right as a parent with the ultimate responsibility for your children to send them to school if you wish. I'm sure they are thriving and happy, and if it works for you that's great. Really. I would defend your right to send them with the same passion with which I defend my right to HE my own children if I see fit. Because you are their parent.

As I believe I've said already, just because I choose to excercise my privilege to HE, it doesn't qualify me to make derogatory comments about your choice. However, whilst not excusing the comments of others, HE parents often have to defend their right as parents to choose the alternative to school for their own children. They often have to do so with people who know very little or nothing about it, and are not interested in learning anything different from their own preconceived ideas about it. Once you've had to defend yourself and your choice an umpteenth number of times, it's hard not to flip your lid, so to speak. And when you do eventually flip your lid, you invariably end up doing so with the person who regretably doesn't really deserve it.

It's so easy to forget that within any group people are individuals with many different motivations and backgrounds. The fact that I might choose to jump in the same bandwagon with someone else doesn't mean I jumped in for the same reason. The Assumption (made by others admittedly) that people who HE aren't normal - whatever that is - just because they choose to utilise a parental right in a different way, is to very much over-simplify a complex issue. Applying the generalistic terms already used by others (unqualified and weird etc) to such a multi-faceted issue is, in my opinion wrong, and unfair at best.

wannabe 'HE is too closed and secretive IMO and resembles more of a cult than normality. '

Where in Gods name do you get your opinions??????

I Home school ds3 very succesfully he is a bright lively interested child - my elder sons go off to school in fact ds1 who was also home educated for a time goes to college to study A level law,psychology,history and english in sept.

Its in no way a cult .

Even people that have openly said to me they dont agree with H.E see ds3 and the work he produces and have actually asked me to tutor their dc after school - its even been suggested I open an independent school!!

I dont care what anyone else thinks about ds being H.E but I m very open and honest with regards to what we are doing and where we are upto with topics and projects etc.

Reading earlier I think that the point made by ditziesma is spot on.

By the way ds1 and 2 who were also home schooled say that school is much easier because nothing is expected of them and they can hand in work they know id find unacceptable.

So why is it OK to say stuff like "say that school is much easier because nothing is expected of them shock and they can hand in work they know id find unacceptable", which is a criticism of school based education based on one family's experience but it's not ok to question or challenge HE based on personal knowledge and experience?

Some topics seem to be "sacred" and undebateable (if such a word exists) and HE appears to be one of them.

omg!!

that was just a comment off my sons not asweeping generalisation of eduction as a whole and I happen to think that for the vast majority of kids school is a fab place to be with qualified teachers doing the job they are paid to do, facilities freely available and the opportunity for kids to learn and develop freely- sadly not every child can get this from school these days.

If you have a school you are happy with and your dc is thriving its a blessing !.

With regard to the work comment I made when I set work for my dc to do I expected it to be done neatly and correctly and for them to research an answer - several teachers have complimented my ds on the way they write their work- one teacher prefered to get ideas written down however badly with whatever spelling mistakes- I wouldnt accept that.

1. They might be open-minded, but they might still have thought it through and come to the conclusion that it's not the best or ideal way to educate a child, in their opinion. HE ers may consider this final conclusion to not to open-minded.

1. It's a knee-jerk response to something which is just a bit different, and therefore challenging.

1. They find the defensive, slightly superior and tricksy attitude of HE'ers irritating. Because HE'ers feel they are bucking the system, being educational outlaws they become zealous and idealistic and highly defensive and therefore unable to have a debate or to share and explain their thinking. They might think 'why should we' which is fair enough, but don't then be surprised if people are not open minded.

1. They don't want it for their child - not for anything - and have to take a while to come round to understanding why someone else might want it for their child. See All Parenting Issues for this one.

1. It's education, stupid. Strong opinions.

Also I think Pisces is right. Like the private v state discussions on MN. People think it is a decision against something (which they do) rather than for something else, and they become defensive about their decisions.

Though ultimately, I don't suppose people really care all that much about how you educate your child - and you should remember this and remain happy and confident with your decisions.

I am not even remotely defensive about my decisions about my children's education - I thought about it very carefully and am happy with the choices I have made. But if anything WAS going to make me defensive, it's comments like ditziesma's - and the implication that I get from many HE'ers both here and in RL that if only I CARED more about my children I would deregister them.

'why aren't more people open-minded about HE?

Quite simply

they don't know anything about it! '

I would think that this is the problem in a nutshell! Those who HE are their own worst enemies-if they were open and proud and told everyone what they did and how they did it people would know something about it!

If someone is making conversation to a DC they often ask about what they are doing.

All the time school children get asked about school. People will say to them 'How do you like school?' 'What do you like best?' 'what are you learning about at the moment?' 'Have you got a nice teacher?'etc etc. The child is free to answer questions honestly, change the subject or disappear and do something else. Ofsted will come into school and say 'what do you like about your lessons?' 'Do the teachers make lessons interesting?' etc -there are no teachers around and DCs are free to say what they like.
In contrast an HE child is asked about their education as in 'do you like being at home?', 'What do you like best about being at home?' What are you learning about at the moment?' And the parent is there with the attitude of 'how dare you be so intrusive, we dont have to tell you anything'.

I think that a lot of people are genuinely interested and enthusiastic, friendly adults and children would get people thinking that it was a great option. There was a thread a little while ago, I didn't reply to it because I had already been on a similar one, a mother was upset because the inspector from the LEA asked her DCs how they thought they were doing. I think it perfectly reasonable to ask the question! If I was doing any sort of course I would think it perfectly reasonable for people to ask me how it was going.
I think HE can be fantastic for some parents and children but the defensive attitude and the secrecy would get me down. If you are doing it well and are happy why not sing from the roof tops and be proud!!

Sorry-I punctuated my last message badly. I meant that a lot of people are interested and if adults and children were friendly and enthusiastic it would help make their point. My last sentence should have had a question mark. I should proof read.
I also agree with Seeker about the implication that all CARING parents would de register-I am a very caring parent and I think school is best for my children.

nickschick but while you might be perfectly capable of educating your children to a standard where they are now attending mainstream college and obtainin further qualifications this surely is not the case for everyone who home-educates their children.

While there are schools who fail children, surely it has to be acknowledged that there are also home educaters who fail their children as well? So who are they answerable to? Who regulates home-education to ensure that children are being educated to a standard at least?

The woman I know who says HE destroyed her life is 21 and is practically illiterate. HE has let her down. Clearly her mother (her father is a no good, waste of space drug addict) has not done the best by her child, and there was no fallback. No-one to ensure that that child received an adequate education.

While of course there are people who are capable of educating their own children, it has to be acknowledged that there are also people who clearly are not.

well one of the people who monitor is my MIL who used to be an ofsted inspector.
She visits families home edding - although many many won't accept her visit.
She said that generally the kids are fantastic and doing well. But most view her visits with suspicion atthe very least.

she tends to try and offer support and advice but most see her proposed visits as an affront and as govt checking up so don't let her in

mind you we don't let her in either butthat is a whole other story.

"why aren't more people open-minded about HE? "

Probably because most people don't know about it and when they find out about it their first reaction is that it's breaking the law. Most people that I know think that school is compulsory. I thought that myself until I found out more about HE.

Also, the majority of people have been brought up to believe that there is only one way to receive an education and that is through school. So of course, if you don't send your child to school you are being an irresponsible parent.

And it isn't that home-educating parents are secretive, a lot of times people ask questions but don't listen to the replies. So unless you think that someone is genuinely interested it's often better to just give the short answer and a smile.
I've also found that when people ask the usual questions "How's school?" "oooh are you not well?" "Day off school?" then it's quite often a conversation killer to say they don't go to school.

I also think that a lot of home-educators would be less resistant to Local Authority enquiries into their educating if the LA employed people who had training/better understanding of all the forms of home-educating (including autonomous)and didn't just seem to be people who mainly know the school model.

I have had 3 children go right through the school system, 2 still at school, 3 withdrawn from school to HE and 1 who has never been so far.

In my experience of 5 (unrelated) families doing home education, I was put off because:

Family one - The teenage classmate had been home educated, and was coming to college for his first formal education experience. He was very politicised about it, and regularly shared his family opinion that we had all suffered for going to school, and that he and his family were part of "Education Otherwise". He actually had AS, so many of his social interaction issues were explained by that, but he struggled terribly, in part because he had never socialised with other children (a family choice rather than a general home education trend, I think).

Family 2 - Four sisters, all home edded, but became quite 'samey' in their ways. They tended to be quite exclusive and self-dependent, which is good in many situations, but when other children get excluded because they are not in the gang it becomes a problem. Although this is not a home ed issue itself, I felt that the girls needed a wider circle of peers, so that they realised that they were not the be all and end all of life.

Family 3 - Mother a very active part of Home Ed group, and children in large family. Whenever anyone asked the children about their education and what they learned, they replied "our passions". When asked to elaborate, we would only get as far as "what makes us passionate". They were bright intelligent girls, but for some reason they were secretive. The Mum was a key part of the home ed organisation, but again was never forthcoming about what she did with them, which was a great shame.

Families 4&5 - Same kind of issues. Families 2, 3, 4 & 5 used to all meet up in the week and when they came to the Sunday group I helped to run, they would invariably have some kind of 'pact'. They would either all echo what you said, or all have an ink stamp which they went around stamping everyone with, or they would all have a particular purse with them, etc. They probably didn't realise that their behaviour was cliquey and exclusive, but the other children in the group were very quickly left out, not in the 'in joke', etc. and as two of the families were large, it was a sizable group of children in the 'clique'.

I didn't enjoy school as a child. But I think that home education is too liberal, and certainly for some children allows arrogance to set in. Some children who are home educated never have their perceptions challenged, because they are raised in a mindset, and continue in it, and never have it contradicted.

As an example, I am a Christian, and to be honest, I don't much like the idea of my child being taught that all roads lead to heaven, etc. but I don't want my children to be brought up in an environment where they think that Christianity is the only faith and never have another perspective to see.

Equally, I don't want them to learn that all people are not nice at the age of 20.

I am sure there are home edders out there that provide their children with a rich and varied education. I just haven't met one yet, which is a shame.

Anyway, there is an essay for you...

Lou some of the things you mention about the families you say "a family choice rather than a general home education trend, I think"
and "Although this is not a home ed issue itself," so why bring them up with regard to HE?

Some of the things you mention, I can't see the problem - "Four sisters, all home edded, but became quite 'samey' in their ways." You could take one of my children and four of his her friends and make the same observation. Is it okay if it's your friends but not if it's your siblings?

Not sure what your point is with the other families either. If someone doesn't want quizzing about what they are learning then don't be surprised if they fob you off. If you asked some of the school children that I know (including some of my own) they would probably shrug and say 'nothing'. Is this more acceptable than the possibly humourous 'my passion'?
As for the children at your Sunday group didn't you pull them up about being exclusive and upsetting others? How did they respond? I think I would have told them they couldn't continue to come if they were upsetting people.

I'm not overly sure that your post proves whether these children were getting a rich and varied education or not.

I'm not sure where this fits in either -
"Equally, I don't want them to learn that all people are not nice at the age of 20."