"Life is tough and children need to learn how to deal with it."

[Bubble99]

We're considering home ed for DS1 when he finishes primary/junior school.

This is one of the comments we've heard against home ed and the more I think about it the more I disagree.

Why should children be subjected to even low-level bullying? Employees don't. Why should children?

I suppose it depends how 'tough' the experience of school is? Children need to learn how to fit in, but not at any cost?

Anna - depends on your view of normality and being 'out in the world' I suppose.

I don't think that there is intrinsically any conflict of interest between "school" and "family values". i don't send my child to school because I want her out of the way but because I think she can learn things there that I cannot teach her.

I think peer relationships are terribly important - just as important as parent-child or sibling relationships.

juule - normality as in a social norm to which your child will sooner or later need to adhere if he/she is to function in society (earn a living and have productive relationships).

I'm not saying bullying, low level or otherwise, doesn't exist. I also think children can sort out social and emotional problems very well if they are shown the way. One of the things I like most about my children's school is the way they behave. They are not just orderly and sensible. They are being taught how to be kind and thoughtful and also how to debate things. The result is a productive and harmonious atmosphere and some very nice young people having a good experience. Children are capable of so much more than we give them credit for.

FWIW I don't think the OP meant that she is considering HE specifically because of the "low-level bullying" whether or not we think it exists or is endemic. She was saying that one of the arguments people have put forward against HE is that children need to learn to cope with it, and must therefore go to school.

Of course scout camps etc apply to school children, I only mentioned them because if children are away at school for 6 hours they already have time apart from their parents.
Any child should be able to do adventurous things,take risks, make their own mistakes and learn from them. There are too many parents (however they educate their DCs) who won't let them go away from home on their own, post a letter, cook a meal, take public transport etc and they control every aspect of the DCs life-it isn't healthy IMO.

My last comment wasn't about HE-schools are full of anti risk taking parents!

Anna -"normality as in a social norm to which your child will sooner or later need to adhere"

I don't see why not attending school would mean that my child could not fit in with the social norm at a later date.

"I think peer relationships are terribly important "

Again it depends on the peer relationship. Would you be happy if your child's peers introduced them to drug-dealing at an age when your child is not mature enough to make the choices you would want them to make?

juule - i think it's much harder to fit in to any culture/environment when you haven't been exposed to it for a long time (and I speak with a great deal of personal experience, having changed environment many times in my life).

I choose my children's school environment with care, so as to reduce the type of risk you describe. Families can also be dangerous places - many children are in a safer place with their peers than in their own family. Children learn about optimal environments by being exposed to many.

I would hope that I had brought up my children not to follow the crowd and that they would be strong enough to withstand any peer pressure on drugs. I think that is much healthier than be preventing them from coming across peers who might influence them!

There were loads of drugs at my school, and I never tried any... And I wasn't some kind of nerd on the fringes of school society, I was right up there with the in-crowd. My mother explained to me what drugs did to you from when I was very young and, armed with good information, I had no desire to try them.

8/10? Who are all these bullies? Its actually just poor behaviour. Some of it learnt and some developed as a coping mechanism for crap going on in the kids life. There are few true potential psychotics!

Some kids grow into bullying, some grow out of it. But either way I find it quite depressing that 'bullying' is depersonified here. There are many benefits to HE and if its to take your kids away from other 'types' of kids, then fine, its no different from those parents who privately educate. At some point you have to dive back into the gene pool!!!

Anna - "i think it's much harder to fit in to any culture/environment when you haven't been exposed to it for a long time"

The only environment that a home-ed child most likely wouldn't be exposed to is a full-time school environment. I'm not sure how that could stop them fitting in later?

And if you think that not taking drugs at school yourself or bringing up your children to be strong enough to withstand peer pressure or 'do the right thing' is a dead-cert to prevent them mixing with the 'wrong type' then you may be somewhat deluding yourself. While it may be so in most cases, it's not always so.

Life is tough at times. Not all children deal with it well and how we would like. Some join the "tough" lot to protect themselves and in doing so alienate themselves from the adult world so making the situation worse as then they only have their (problem)peer group to depend on.

Since for the vast majority of children in the Western world the two major environments that influence them are home and school, children who are home educated are clearly denied one of the two most formative experiences of Western childhood.

And, sadly, I can think of quite a few children who grew up exposed to drugs at home (middle class homes) who needed to go to school to learn that that was not normal or healthy.

But just because the vast majority experience school it doesn't make school an essential experience for everyone and it doesn't mean that not experiencing it will have a detrimental effect. For some school has a more detrimental effect.

If you don't have a drug problem within the home, though, then there isn't that benefit for sending the child to school.

juule - all I am illustrating with the drug problem at home is that homes/families are not perfect places, and that it is good for children to go to school where they can encounter different values, some of which may be significantly healthier than the values they encounter at home. By exposure to lots of value sets, children can decide in later life on the values they wish to espouse - which may not necessarily be those of their parents.

My parents weren't perfect and nor were my partners' parents, and of course they had values typical of their generation. We live our life according to values that we have chosen based on all our life experiences, using our education to decide, together, through reasoned debate, what our values are.

Our children in turn will have a different value set, appropriate to their generation and circumstances.

siblingrivalry

Thanks,windygales. I am also a nursey nurse (am SAHM at the moment.)How did the school react when you took one child out, but left another there? Sorry to be so inquisitive, but DD2 is due to start at the same school in just over a year -she's currently at the pre school.
BTW, I think your oldest child has probably thrived because you rebuilt his confidence and self esteem after he was bullied. So many kids have to deal with this and it's so painful. I know from experience, as I was bullied for 3 years.
I know that kids can't be wrapped in cotton wool but surely they shouldn't have to cope with those sorts of issues at such a young age. There's plenty of time when they grow up to handle crap issues

well the teacher who did it was notorious for it it later cme out she'd singled a boy out every year we went thru hell and highwater with the LE but finally she lost her position in the school- school were ok bout middle son being there id worked there as a volunteer and had been offered paid jobs there ,I had several aquaintnces amongst the teaching staff and ds2 was happy to go ,as the situation developed and ds1 was awarded a home tutor to educate him school suddenly changed the headteacher left the same week we made our allegtions then during the investigation teachers begn handing in reignations and i was concerned the next class ds2 went in wasnt a teacher i was familiar with and basiclly decided to cut my losses and return to my hometown.

I feel very strongly about bullying theres childhood banter and theres bullying that bruises the soul and if im honest the feeling of inadequacy you get from being bullied stays with you forever.

I wont say the teachers name but lets pretend shes called mrs butler ,,,,,we were in the doctors (many miles away from where this happened and several years later)and the receptionist called out 'mrs butler the dr will see you now' and the look of panic on my ds1 fce told me hed not forgotten

I teach my children to be respectful but now i instill a strong belief that they too deserve respect and they can say if they dont like the way a teacher addresses them they are not rude but will clearly state their opinion and request that the teacher respects that and so far its been ok .

"We live our life according to values that we have chosen based on all our life experiences, using our education to decide, together, through reasoned debate, what our values are"

I agree. However, I do think parents should be able to take the decision about when their child is exposed to some values/ideas depending on the maturity of their child.

I agree with most of your post. I just don't think that school is a necessary part of life for all.

'''I think peer relationships are terribly important - just as important as parent-child or sibling relationships.'''

Anna8888which is why i occasionally allow my home educted son out of his cotton wool padded cell to mingle with the sons and daughters of druggies rapists and bank robbers ...pah comments like that

FGS

HOME EDUCATEDDOES NOT= ISOLATED AND SHELTERED

juule - I am sure that there is an issue of the schools that one has available. Like I said in my earlier post, I am happy with the choice of schools we have for our children - so think it is (highly) beneficial for them to attend. I would undoubtedly feel different if I thought the schools were crap...

windygalestoday - don't get cross, that comment was not about home ed versus school ed

I agree with you Anna, it is sad that these threads always turn into HE v School.HE can be very good for some children but schools are not the work of the devil! Most teachers are in the job because they like children!
Human nature is the same the world over and there are bullies outside schools. Life is about learning to get on with other people which has to be based on compromise.The only way that you can learn to get on with other people is interacting, learning to share and knowing what makes a good friend. This can be done at home, but is easier at school just through numbers of children. In either case it is something that children need to learn on their own away from adults.

I agree with all that, Abbey, except the part where you say it's easier at school and that it has to be done away from adults.

It's not always easier at school and whether the child is away from adults, I would say it depends on the age of the child.