"Life is tough and children need to learn how to deal with it."

[Bubble99]

We're considering home ed for DS1 when he finishes primary/junior school.

This is one of the comments we've heard against home ed and the more I think about it the more I disagree.

Why should children be subjected to even low-level bullying? Employees don't. Why should children?

I suppose it depends how 'tough' the experience of school is? Children need to learn how to fit in, but not at any cost?

forever I am not anti HE at all, but I just question riven's extreme idea that a school is this terrible institue where kids are bullied and it is not real life!

I think it depends what your experience of school has been (for yourself or your children).

If you feel the negatives are just about having to conform, having to cope with people you don't get on with, and therefore learning skills for dealing with the kind of situations you'll encounter in later life, then I don't think that's such a bad thing, and I think this is where the "have to learn to cope" idea stems from.

On the other hand, if your experience of school has been bullying (from either children or staff) which has not been dealt with, or a soul-destroying failure to cope let alone thrive, then the best you can hope for is to survive the experience, but you are likely to come out very damaged. In that case, the child is not learning to cope at all, and would definitely be better out of the situation.

And of course, many people HE for reasons which have nothing to do with bullying or their child not coping, but make a positive choice to go about education in a different way.

We started HE in S3 (Year 10ish), not because of any problems with school, but just as a way of getting an education tailored for DSs aims and ambitions. He still mixes with groups of people around his own age, some of whom he finds easier company than others, so I don't think he is particularly insulated from "real-life"

(BTW I was thinking of carpet factories in places like India, which are a dangerous environment for children to work )

i'm not saying you have said that teachersays, it has always been difficult to get the message across that HE kids don't just 'waft' in their own little worlds and threfore are not ready to hold down a job or anything, and it makes the HE people a bit frustrated.

I don't think all schools are bad, as i have said my daughter loves it and has never had a problem, but it is not for everyone.

I believe that school is more than learning, it is also about social skills, and having a life separate from parents and siblings, existing as an individual not as a unit. Of course this is learned through other pursuits, as forever says, but there is no other institute like school, so scouts etc is not the same, just an alternative.

I was bullied at junior school, and probably would have been happy to be home schooled if asked, but what would that have solved, I would never have dealt with those people who were hurting me. Eventually I did, and that was because I had to, because that is real life, it was me and nobody else that could fix it, reason with it, school is a wonderful place, not all the time but you have to learn to adapt to all situations good or bad.

Scotland, you have summed up my DDs experience when you wrote 'a soul-destroying failure to cope'. I am beginning to wonder about the long-term effects she may suffer. It's so helpful to hear other people's ideas and opinions though.

colacubes the problem is that, although you learned important coping skills, some children simply fold up under the pressure. Some commit suicide, some self-harm, some start to truant regularly and fall in with a bad crowd. If you could predict ahead of time which children would find ways of coping and which would not, then it would be easier to say what the best choice is, but parents can only go with what they believe (or fear) is likely to happen, and do what they can to deal with the situation.

I think that 'life is tough' is a crap reason for justifying sending your child to school. And I speak as someone who does send her children to school.

I do as it happens think that the interaction and learning to deal with other people bit of school is important, and that so is dealing with kids from families who don't give a toss about education and schooling (which is probably the only thing that HE, by definition, cannot supply - any parent who HEs has thought about school and education) but that is different.

siblingrivalry I think if my child had been crying when taken to school, and suffering extreme enxiety, I would have looked into HE a lot earlier (it was just a practical choice for us). I do think that it would be worth your while meeting up with HE families in your area to find out what it is like first-hand.

I don't have a problem with schools in general, and DS might go back to one in another year or so, but I do think that for some children they just don't work.

I agree with MI, I don't home ed but if my children were being bullied or were consistently miserable, I would consider it. I certainly wouldn't just tell them that life's like that and they have to deal with it.

I sometimes had a tough time at school, but have never ever experienced any sort of bullying as an adult. Noone in any of my jobs has ever treated me remotely badly in the way school children and teachers can treat children. It just wouldn't happen. School is nothing like the rest of life, IME.

Scotland, I totslly agree with you. HE is something I'm keen to pursue but it's so difficult when even DH is against it. Think that's why I need to meet up with other HE families- I desperately need some support.
Does anyone know how I would go about this please?

You could join Education Otherwise and they will give you details of local groups (www.education-otherwise.org. On their site and also www.heas.org.uk (home ed advisory service) there is literature which might help to persuade dh and others. Also, if you say which area you are there may be MNers who can give you links.

Motherinferior - you say that HE children can't meet children whose parents don't care about education - but they can if they go to scouts/theatre groups/sports or whatever. Or if they 'play out' with other local children - both of which my ds does. HE children don't have to only mix with other HE children - and I'm keen for mine to meet a whole variety of other children as that is important to me.

sibling - enjoy your day with dd

Maybe first of all you could go along to a local group. Are you a member of Education Otherwise? They are at www.educationotherwise.org and they have a contact list of local groups etc. Take DC with you and see how things turn out. If Dc enjoys it they can tell dad and perhaps take him along next time.

oops cross post with jollydo but at least we both said the same thing!

Thanks very much jollydo and forever, that's a great help. Will definitely be looking into it. You've really given me a boost. Back to making coasters out of Hama for now!

Yes it's tough in most state schools but you don't have to succumb to that you have the choice. I had a hellish time at school, you can equip your kids to deal with difficult situations without subjecting them to tough times. I would say on the contrary tough times at school held me back, made me dumb down and be afraid to be exposed as a keen learner, lowered my confidence and didn't really equip me to get on in life, just to survive in an environment that I didn't want to be in. I got my confidence and got away but no thanks to school. Life doesn't have to be tough it's a misnoma.

There's a similar argument for private ed. I'd just say bollocks to them

all 3 of our children have been home educated at some point,my eldest is in secondary school in year 10 hes just done his work experience placement and done fantastically well his head of year aid to us 'nicholas is an excellent example of todays fantastic teaching methods' errrr nooooooooo he was H.E for 4 years!!!

some children suit school it works for them others dont- we cant all be round pegs fitting into round holes.

school life shouldnt be tough children shouldnt suffer the consequence of other peoples moods and unpleasantries.

On the other hand, if your experience of school has been bullying (from either children or staff) which has not been dealt with, or a soul-destroying failure to cope let alone thrive, then the best you can hope for is to survive the experience, but you are likely to come out very damaged. In that case, the child is not learning to cope at all, and would definitely be better out of the situation............

a teacher bullied my son and it took 4 years for him to return to school- no child should have to deal with that.

Windygales, can I ask why your son wanted to return to school after 4 years - am gathering information! Also, did he settle back in well?

Kerrymum

Windygales, can I ask why your son wanted to return to school after 4 years - am gathering information! Also, did he settle back in well?

We had moved to the Lincolnshire area which was where he was when the bullying took place, we took him out of school and home schooled him, although his brother stayed at the same school for some time after.

As im a nursery nurse and had worked for the local education authority in our hometown we realised he was going to need to return to school(he was ready to return and it was bit like falling off a horse he needed to try it again even if only to realise H.E was best for him) to be prepared for secondary school he was a lot better mentally and we had built his confidence back up so we returned to our home town and got him and his middle brother into a local 'good' school.

He stayed there a year until he went to secondary school where he is and has been v happy and he will leave next year.

The primary school he was at went downhill rapidly and i home schooled our middle son for almost 3 years until he started secondary last sept he too is thriving and enjoying school life.

Meanwhile ds3 is 7 and has never been to school.

All 3 of our sons are well adjusted pleasant lads, popular with lots of hobbies and good social lives-imo H.E doesnt inhibit interaction and social skills and leaves children with a belief in themselves.

KERRYMUM

I think they should enlist in the army at age 7 or so.

as late as that????i would think start as you mean to go on and get em started at 5.

Thanks,windygales. I am also a nursey nurse (am SAHM at the moment.)How did the school react when you took one child out, but left another there? Sorry to be so inquisitive, but DD2 is due to start at the same school in just over a year -she's currently at the pre school.
BTW, I think your oldest child has probably thrived because you rebuilt his confidence and self esteem after he was bullied. So many kids have to deal with this and it's so painful. I know from experience, as I was bullied for 3 years.
I know that kids can't be wrapped in cotton wool but surely they shouldn't have to cope with those sorts of issues at such a young age. There's plenty of time when they grow up to handle crap issues.