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Find advice from other parents on our Homeschool forum. You may also find our round up of the best online learning resources useful.

Regretting taking kids out of school.

999 replies

apocketfulofposy · 03/03/2014 22:00

Posting here for traffic,sorry.

I have 5 children ranging from aged 6 to 10 weeks old.

We always planned to home educate after reading a book about it when ds1 and 2 were toddlers,then when ds1 was about 4 and a half,and i was pregnant with baby number 4,i decided to give our local primary a go,partly because it was just that time where he would of been going and partly because i was finding it hard with them all at home (no family on either side for 3 hours,husband who works away monday to friday,rural ish area,i cant even drive!).

Anyway reception was ok,he liked it,made plenty of friends,dc2 and 3 went to the pre school and liked it,except dc2 had lots of issues with hitting other children and just general destructive behaviour.

When ds1 started yr1 last year he hated it from the word go,he still liked seeing his friends but he really noticed the change between mostly play to mostly lessons,plus his teacher left after a term and the new one was very strict and spoke to the children like she was some kind of prison officer.

Ds2 started reception and seemed to enjoy it but after a few weeks i was called in a few times about his hitting and destroying things,they said he just physically wasnt ready to be at schoolt hat much so put him down to half days,which was a bit of a faff for me as i was in and out all day but it was fine.It didnt seem to help though and he was behaving worse and worse at school,especially at lunchtime,but strangely his behaviour at home was getting better.

Add to this the fact i was finding it hard carting them all around everywhere and i felt crap because i kept forgetting to reply to things and i kept hearing all this micheal gove stuff,i just decided to pull them out,id been thinking about it on and off for a while and just thought do it,and id id it almost on a bit of a whim.

The first few weeks were great and we all loved the novelty of not rushing around in mornings and the kids have been playing all day,and actually one good point is that they have been getting on so much better.

But apart from that i am starting to regret taking them out,i miss the routine,i miss being able to take the babies to their groups and talking to my "mummy friends"(cringe) i miss being able to go to the shop quickly with just the double buggy,i also just dont know what to do with them,and the house is just such a mess!

I know these are'nt huge things but its starting to feel chaotic and i can feel it going back to the way it used to be,before school,and it hink i underestimated how much it did for all of us.I just dont know what to do!

Help and advice please!xxxxx

OP posts:
wordfactory · 07/03/2014 17:52

I think there are a number of reasons why HErs are defensive. First, many of them retreated from state education because their child's needs were not being remotely met; second, the powers that be attempt to outlaw/restrict HE with boring regularity!

Bunbaker · 07/03/2014 17:53

Perhaps it would be better if the powers that be could support home educators instead.

TamerB · 07/03/2014 18:16

Having looked into radical unschooling the following seems fairly typical:
Parents allow their kids to do whatever they want, and they believe their children's natural curiosity will lead them to seek knowledge. Believers in unschooling argue that kids should be allowed to set their own educational pace, and pursue expertise on topics they find interesting and necessary.

Good Morning America recently covered a story on the Biegler family. Christine Yablonski and Phil Biegler of Westford, Mass., describe themselves as "radical unschoolers" who allow their teen daughter and son to essentially do whatever they want.

They do not go to school, and hardly open a text book. Their son has no interest in sports, mostly because he was never exposed to them.

So what do their kids do with all their free time? Does their natural curiosity motivate them to seek any type of knowledge at all?

"They might watch television," Yablonski said. "They might play games on the computers."

Her husband interjected and said they might read.

Yablonski isn't worried that her teen daughter knows nothing about algebra, or the fact that she stays up all night because "she's getting everything done that she wants to get done."

She continues to argue that if her daughter needed algebra, she would find the information herself. In other words, her daughter does not need any instruction. Yablonski also isn't concerned that her kids have no interest in attending college in the future

I have looked at the children of Sandra Dodd and they seem immensely privileged with the parents happy to treat them as irresponsible children for years.
Her husband was the same For years now he has been an engineer, respected by colleagues, and secure in his career. They don't care that it took him twelve years to finish college I can't afford to keep my children in college that long!
Of her eldest son:
So back to this never-schooled seventeen year old at our house.

Will he go to college? Maybe.
In September this year? No.
Are we worried? No.
Maybe we're surprised not to be worried.

Maybe he wants to be a programmer, or a lawyer, he has said. He's not in a hurry. He might like to take some classes in the winter, at TVI (a technical school near our house that offers basic classes transferable to the university in town).

The calm surrounding all this surprises me, but it shouldn't. We weren't too worried when he read "late" (meaning later than we thought he might; he was nearly nine). We didn't withhold our regard as he made various choices in his life, and he has impressed us and others many times with his competence and demeanor. Adults trust him. Kids like him. Not all people his age have even that, but Kirby also has a job he has had for four years. That's longer than some adults have held a job. He works at a gaming shop, and so he is surrounded by bright, interested and interesting people. He is active at the karate dojo he attends. He teaches a beginning class once a week. Some his age will take karate for the first time in college, if their parents let them study anything so frivolous.

I would rather Kirby never go to college than to go without a reason to go. I would rather he continue to learn from experiences around him, from reading, the internet, friends, movies and direct observation than to borrow a bunch of money (or spend ours) to attend college just because his grandparents or uncles or my neighbors might be impressed. If he did that, I would start to wonder if maybe he wasn't as bright as we liked to think.

But if and when he has a desire or need to go, we will support him fully. If he enrolls, it will be because he has a reason to go, and has made a free choice. Those factors will create an entirely different experience from some of those around him who were pressured to go and are now angry with their parents and the world. And he doesn't have the motivation to get as far from home as he can. He likes home.

She appears to want to have them dependent for years! How can that be good for them?
They appear to pay for the daughter to go travelling extensively.

I gave mine roots and gave them wings. Even if I could afford it I would be horrified if the wings were so clipped that they didn't bother, see any need to be an adult.

I agree with the parenting expert who says :
This to me is putting way too much power in the hands of kids, something that we know kids can often find anxiety-producing, and it's also sending a message that they're the center of the universe, which I do not think is healthy for children."

Unschooled teens, like the Bieglers, usually don't know the difference between right and wrong since they do not face any consequences for their actions. For instance, the Biegler family doesn't believe in disciplining their teens.

Children who are unschooled will also have major issues with adulthood. What happens when they're on their own? Will they find work if they want to? It's fair to argue that the real world does not work that way. Chances are, they won't even be able to land a job without a minimal high school diploma.

Unschooling equates to irresponsible parenting. Those who are educated have a tremendous advantage, especially in times of economic disasters. The job market is extremely competitive, so why not encourage children to pursue knowledge instead of allowing them to stay up all night and play video games all day? Children are not mature enough to make their own decisions, and need direction from adults

While I am quite happy with home schooling, and possibly unschooling, I think that radical unschooling is irresponsible, lazy parenting.

TamerB · 07/03/2014 18:20

I bet he likes home!! It is like a hotel and he is the freeloader!
And posy thinks I should be impressed by his mother Sandra Dodd!!

Twintery · 07/03/2014 18:22

I didnt know that wordfactory. What stops it happening?

Bunbaker · 07/03/2014 18:23

OH and I are too old for DD to be dependent on us for long.

Also, DD doesn't know what she wants to do with her life. I think it is much easier when you have a goal in life to work towards, but right now she doesn't have a clue. So my advice to her is to get as broad an education as possible to enable her to make the right choices.

streakybacon · 07/03/2014 18:24

Perhaps it would be better if the powers that be could support home educators instead

A lot of us are working on it, but it's slow progress, if any. There is no funding for elective home education and at a time when every service is being cut, there are fewer resources than ever to support HE. Financially, it would be easier for LAs if all children were in schools, and sadly that's the approach some of them take.

But we keep fighting the good fight, advising and guiding, and hopefully one day they'll get it Smile.

Twintery · 07/03/2014 18:27

Have you got any links wordfactory? I cant seem to find any.

ommmward · 07/03/2014 18:29

TamerB, do you agree that top-down discipline is the best or only way to learn about (a) consequences and (b) the difference between right and wrong? I don't.

I would describe myself as a radical unschooler, but I definitely, definitely put opportunities in front of my children. Sometimes they don't take those opportunities (and I respect their preference not to spread their wings that day), sometimes (like today), they gloriously, gloriously, gloriously do, demonstrating to me that I was RIGHT not to push, RIGHT to be patient, RIGHT to observe the child's stage rather than calendar age.

Twintery · 07/03/2014 18:31

So what happens to a radical unschooler at say aged 20? Are they likely to be around the family home for a long time? Is that part of the appeal of HE for some?

Twintery · 07/03/2014 18:31

To clip their wings so they are less likely to fly?

wordfactory · 07/03/2014 18:33

No links but you should find info if you type in Badman review and Ed Balls.

Basically, Ed Balls was the Ed Sec at the time and was highly critical of HE. He set up a review with a view to serously curtailing HE. HEers were to be forced to use thw NC and include set number of hours of 'formal learning' and be inspected regularly.

Basically he was gunning for them.

But Badman basically said no case to answer so it was all shelved.

HErs are far safer under the Tories Shock...

mistlethrush · 07/03/2014 18:38

I don't think that HEers should be inspected - I think that it should be optional - but I don't know how you pick out the people that are not bothering ensure that their children have any education at all... I do think that some sort of support should be available.

streakybacon · 07/03/2014 18:41

It's difficult, mistlethrush. I've been working with my LA to help them draft their guidance documents and what they say they do to support families and what they actually do are frequently two separate things. They do know what they are meant to provide in terms of support, and the legal guidelines they are meant to follow, but it doesn't often happen that way in practice.

mistlethrush · 07/03/2014 18:42

Sounds like a lot of 'support' that they are 'supposed' to do but managing to get them to actually do it is a completely different thing...

streakybacon · 07/03/2014 18:45

Definitely. Example: this week I supported a parent at her first LA meeting. She was told that they don't force visits on home educators, yet someone had turned up unannounced at her home a couple of weeks ago and put a note through her door. The guidance notes recognise that they shouldn't do this, and the officer we saw said it didn't happen, but it still did. It's hard to have trust for an LA when they are blatantly lying to you like that.

morethanpotatoprints · 07/03/2014 18:46

I think many H.edders are defensive because society can treat the unfairly, pry, make assumptions, and presume they have the facts even if they don't.
In rl this can be a huge problem to children, whereas other subjects that cause such debate on here often attract comments such as this wouldn't be an issue in rl, unfortunately it isn't the same for H.ed.
There are always those that argue you are doing your child a disservice, not by any particular action or philosophy, just because you or your child chose the H.ed route.

Bunbaker · 07/03/2014 19:09

Do you think that society makes assumptions based on the home educators they know/read bout in the press or internet/see on TV?

In my post upthread I stated that my impression from the posts on this thread was that most home educators had a) Large families b) Children with extra needs that aren't being met at school c) Dreadful schools in their area d) Children who have been bullied at school.

Perhaps the perception of the general public is similar, and I'm sorry to add that perhaps they think that some home educators are simply bonkers.

Bunbaker · 07/03/2014 19:09

Oh, and that last point is not my opinion Grin

TamerB · 07/03/2014 19:15

TamerB, do you agree that top-down discipline is the best or only way to learn about (a) consequences and (b) the difference between right and wrong? I don't.

There is a weird idea that if you are not at one extreme you are at the other i.e. if you don't UP then you must use naughty steps. I am somewhere between-doing what suits them and their children.

I don't know why HEers have to be defensive, they are too polite and think they have to explain and justify. There is really no need, you simply say 'it suits us' and change the subject-like a broken record if necessary. People have criticised my choices of school, I have never got drawn into it-I just say 'it suits us'. To be honest I am quite pleased I wouldn't want it oversubscribed.

I was interested in Sandra Dodd's children because the middle one was born the same year as my middle one and the youngest the same year as my youngest. The contrast is huge. My middle one is buying his own house with his fiancée and the youngest is holding down a responsible job in London.Her youngest still seems to think she is a radical unschooler-which according to her mother she is-it goes on for ever-or until she decides to grow up.

TamerB · 07/03/2014 19:17

This isn't because they went to school-I bet the successful HEers on here are not expecting to still be doing it with children over 20yrs-thrilled that they are so happy at home that they don't want to leave for university/courses/jobs.

morethanpotatoprints · 07/03/2014 19:17

Bunbaker

Maybe, in some cases, but I don't think this is normally the case.
The people we tend to meet around our town don't seem to know much about H.ed.
There are very few who have chosen this route in our area.
Your impression you state above doesn't include our circumstances at all, although this doesn't bother me.
It does highlight the fact there are many different types of family and different reasons parents and children choose H.ed.
Bonkers, to me isn't necessarily a derogatory term. I'm sure Einstein and Mozart were considered bonkers along with their parents, who chose to H.ed.

TamerB · 07/03/2014 19:19

Sorry-doing what suits me and my children. I waited to see what they were like-I can't just treat them the same-different things work for different children. I didn't work out some philosophy before they were born and expect them to fit it.

Bunbaker · 07/03/2014 19:24

Morethan I was only making my points from the posts on this thread. I have only known one "home educator" in RL and she did a pretty bad job of it, to the extent that she failed to recognise that two of her children were dyslexic.

However, I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming that all home educators are like her, because it is obvious that done well, it is very successful. I think you are right that most people don't know much about home educating. I don't, which is why I have asked so many questions. It isn't for me or DD, but there is room in the world for all of us (as MIL keeps saying)

morethanpotatoprints · 07/03/2014 19:31

Bunbaker

I appreciate this and you weren't to know our circumstances as I hid the thread earlier on and didn't post.
On reflection, we do fall into one of your suggestions above anyway. Grin

We are the school not meeting the needs but not in a bad way. I'm not sure that any school could have met dd's needs, but that's another story.
The bonkers statement was really as implied, sometimes bonkers is good. I have to say this as we are a very unconventional family and most of us are a bit bonkers. Grin
I really didn't take offence at your comments just wanted to offer a different view.

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